Dyson got largest EU farm subsidy paid to a private landowner in En (£3.7m)

[Nick]

you asked for proof that the 350m per week (18.2b) was a lie.

Care to share with everyone where I asked that in this thread?

[Baff]

Fact check my arse.

They got taken to court for false advertising.
And found to be innocent.

Your lot are stupid they tried to prosecute them for telling the truth to the public.
And got laughed out of the courtroom.

Time wasting, money wasting assholes.
"What do you mean, the country didn't vote for us?"

"It's your fault. We are taking you to court."

And they wonder why no one wants them in charge.

[GerryT]

Gerry


From the ONS website.

In 2018 the UK abatement was £4.5 billion. This means £15.5 billion was transferred from the UK government to the EU in official payments. This is money sent from the UK.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

Wee from factcheck it references a Govt link also
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/814387/190618_HMT_2018_Annual_Statement_on_European_Finances_print.pdf
If you look at table 3A on page 28 it shows the UK gross contribution was Stg17.4b.

Either way it doesn't matter, you asked for proof that the 350m per week (18.2b) was a lie. You then yourself produced the proof that it was a lie.

But more importantly the bus was at best misleading, people that are not familiar with the details would think, "god the EU is sucking us dry to the tune of 350m every week we are members, we have to leave". That's a lie, the EU doesn't even cost the UK half that, the real cost, not some imaginary gross number.
The UK has to replicate EU agencies post brexit, how much will that cost, there's about 32 of them that the UK gets to use as part of it's net contribution, I'll start you off, the UK has estimated the replication of the chemical agency that the UK has to set up will cost about 800m per yr, so how much is the rest of those agencies going to cost ?  What is the cost for the 50,000 customs officials that the UK needs per year, all in about another 2b a year. It goes on and on.
That red bus should have said "It will cost us a lot more every year after we leave but that's ok, it's not about money" That would have been more accurate.

So thanks for proving the point you ask for proof on. The red bus was a lie, the UK doesn't send and never has sent the EU 350b a week

[Nick]

Would you stop, everyone knows that was a lie. For starters Thatcher negotiated a rebate, in 2018 the contribution was calculated at 17.4b less the rebate of 4.2b giving a gross contribution of 13.2b. The UK doesn't pay the 17.4b, that amount of money is not sent to the EU. The 350m a week IS a LIE. The UK pays 13.2b Gross but it gets money back and it's net contribution is about 7.5b.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

So that part of the bus was a lie and that's how.

Interesting graph in the attached, if you look from the 1970's up to 2008 the UK GROSS contribution is on average less than 5b and that's before the UK received any money back. Seriously your way over playing the importance of the UK financial contribution to the EU.

Gerry


From the ONS website.

In 2018 the UK abatement was £4.5 billion. This means £15.5 billion was transferred from the UK government to the EU in official payments. This is money sent from the UK.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

[johnofgwent]

Would you stop, everyone knows that was a lie. For starters Thatcher negotiated a rebate, in 2018 the contribution was calculated at 17.4b less the rebate of 4.2b giving a gross contribution of 13.2b. The UK doesn't pay the 17.4b, that amount of money is not sent to the EU. The 350m a week IS a LIE. The UK pays 13.2b Gross but it gets money back and it's net contribution is about 7.5b.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

So that part of the bus was a lie and that's how.

Interesting graph in the attached, if you look from the 1970's up to 2008 the UK GROSS contribution is on average less than 5b and that's before the UK received any money back. Seriously your way over playing the importance of the UK financial contribution to the EU.

And you can stop too.

Johnson is on record as saying he knows it was incorrect but that was what was stated and it was too late to do anything about it now

It was all over the BBC website about two days after my shouting match with him in Ross On Wye about it.

Not that anyone who wishes to peddle the tiresome line that the bus was a lie cares.

[Baff]

It is semantically correct.
And more importantly it is correct in sentiment.

It is however, unduly emotive bringing the NHS into it unnecessarily.
Targeted to play on the heart strings of the working class left.

People that left leaning Remainers had considered to be their natural allies.
But aren't.


And this brutal realisation has resulted in derangement syndrome.
Abject denial of the truth in preference to a harder recognition of the facts that disenfranchise them from power.

[GerryT]

The UK government does not have 18.2 billion to spend as it wants. You can slice and dice the subsidies all you want, the EU either takes or chooses where we spend 18.2 billion of our money. So that part of the bus is correct, the other part is a question so how can it be a lie?

Would you stop, everyone knows that was a lie. For starters Thatcher negotiated a rebate, in 2018 the contribution was calculated at 17.4b less the rebate of 4.2b giving a gross contribution of 13.2b. The UK doesn't pay the 17.4b, that amount of money is not sent to the EU. The 350m a week IS a LIE. The UK pays 13.2b Gross but it gets money back and it's net contribution is about 7.5b.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

So that part of the bus was a lie and that's how.

Interesting graph in the attached, if you look from the 1970's up to 2008 the UK GROSS contribution is on average less than 5b and that's before the UK received any money back. Seriously your way over playing the importance of the UK financial contribution to the EU.

[GerryT]

The government is now funding the NHS in excess of that figure. You're like a broken record.

That wasn't the point, if the UK are putting lots of needed money into the NHS it has nothing to do with Brexit. It has to do with your tax money being taken from somewhere else to fund the NHS. That will please some and aggravate others. A far cry from getting 350m EXTRA a week to spend as you see fit.

[johnofgwent]

Oh I do wish they would stop misrepresenting this. THe bus clearly said

We send the EU £350 million a week.
Let's fund our NHS instead.

Some hack couldn't read and the mud stuck. We had been told we couldn't afford the NHS for years, here was a way of putting some cash into it. No-one ever said all of it.

Ah but several people also pointed out - as i did to the berk with the hair's face - that the £350 million was bullshit and his continuing to spout it made him remain's best asset.

[Nick]

All lies Nick, no matter what way you look at it

The UK government does not have 18.2 billion to spend as it wants. You can slice and dice the subsidies all you want, the EU either takes or chooses where we spend 18.2 billion of our money. So that part of the bus is correct, the other part is a question so how can it be a lie?

[Nick]

HE NEVER SAID IT WAS PART OF IT EITHER. He did manage to mention 350m and NHS in the same advertisement on the bus.  What's your point anyway, he lied that's the message. He's a liar and the bus was a lie.

The government is now funding the NHS in excess of that figure. You're like a broken record.

[GerryT]

It can't have been that carefully worded cause none of you Remoaners ever quote it correctly.

Maybe it was the 128 bit encryption?

All lies Nick, no matter what way you look at it

[GerryT]

Indeed  he could have used a larger figure on money we would save from being outside the EU and that that figure could be used on the NHS . Again though he never said  ALL OF IT

HE NEVER SAID IT WAS PART OF IT EITHER. He did manage to mention 350m and NHS in the same advertisement on the bus.  What's your point anyway, he lied that's the message. He's a liar and the bus was a lie.

[Nick]

Same with the bus, carefully worded

It can't have been that carefully worded cause none of you Remoaners ever quote it correctly.

Maybe it was the 128 bit encryption?

[Streetwalker]

That's just like quoting Clinton when he said. "I never had sex with that woman,,Monica Lewinsky".
Like he tried to twist what he actual ment, which was he didn't have sex with her. He felt he hadn't lied, bullsh1t artist.

Same with the bus, carefully worded, first implying that the UK gives the EU 18.2b (350m) a yr when t doesn't and secondly implying 350m a week will be given to the NHS.
If you want to take the Bill Clinton line of defence then at best you just look as foolish as he did when that lie was disclosed. The red bus was used to make people think the NHS would be revamped with 350m a week, who wouldn't vote for that Brexit !!  In fact Johnson went on to say the number was Underestimated !!

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-says-his-350-million-a-week-brexit-claim-was-an-underestimate-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

Boris Johnson has defended the Leave campaign's claim that Brexit will give Britain an extra £350 million a week to spend on the NHS by arguing the campaign could have used a larger figure.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Indeed  he could have used a larger figure on money we would save from being outside the EU and that that figure could be used on the NHS . Again though he never said  ALL OF IT