Biased Liberals - race crime reporting

[DeppityDawg]

Equally, I think others are right that violent racist bastards want to hurt people in this country. I have seen masked blokes in Woolwich wielding scaffolding poles threatening to beat up Muslims. No one can tell me that's not heinous stuff

Sure. But to be fair, the only guys I have ever seen carrying weapons like scaffolding poles in this country were not intending to beat up Muslims, but other white guys, and I'm pretty sure I've seen a whole lot more of that kind of sh*t than you have

But here are two articles from 2 mainstream sources that illustrate exactly what is wrong with both the reporting of and our perception of so called "race" attacks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54396065

So, Rick Moralis, the former Ghostbuster gets "randomly" attacked in a street in Noo Yoick. No, its true no one witnessed it, but it was caught on CCTV, and the Police are now asking for help to identify the "suspect". And no, its true there is no readily identifiable motive, but there is no mention of the suspect being black (which he clearly is in the CCTV), and no mention of any "potential racist attack" - which you know as well as I do, had the skin colour of the attacker and the victim been reversed, would have figured somewhere in the reporting. No. None of that - there is nothing to see here, people, now move along

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8696681/Shocking-video-shows-white-soldier-punching-black-man-sitting-chest.html

Then we have another incident, down the road from NYC in Buffalo, where a white guy (who happens to be military) pins down a black guy who he alleges (and the video appears to support) has abused, spat at and then attempted to punch him, only for the white guy to lay him out. Whereupon numerous bystanders get involved. One asks the soldier if he is a "white supremacist", while a black guy in a wheelchair then arrives with a baseball bat to help the "victim" - its alleged that the "victim" was both mentally ill, and had caused problems in the area for several days before this incident. None of this matters to the bystanders, who only see ONE thing - a white guy attacking a black guy

It seems to be all about perception, General. The public now seem to perceive any kid of clash between a white and black person as a "racial incident", with the white person almost always perceived as the aggressor - even when evidence subsequently shows they aren't, as in this case. This kind of sympathy perception has been demonstrated numerous times when actors playing a male and female partner in a public place play out a "domestic incident". When the female partner is the one being attacked or abused,  bystanders almost always intervene. When the roles are reversed, virtually everyone passes by without getting involved

[Borg Refinery]

If we all stop caring then we end up with some horrible Edwardian type society where prejudice is celebrated.. ironicaly, the rich liberals would do the best out of such an unequal society, so caring purely to kick them in the goolies might be a prudent course of action. 

Look, Dynamics, you're an intelligent poster. The reason they swap between absolute numbers and percentages depending on what they are showing, is that percentages are less transparent when in absolute numbers terms, the figures suggest that either -

A) Ethnic minorities are committing race hate crimes at the rate of approx 2.5 times their representation in society
B) White people are lying about being victims of race hate crimes
C) The statistics are either wrong or misrepresented

For the purposes of C, let's assume that a white British Caucasian attacking a white Caucasian Polish man, while it is still a hate crime, it is not a "race" hate crime.

So what do you think is happening?

I think you are right, that is happening.

Equally, I think others are right that violent racist bastards want to hurt people in this country. I have seen masked blokes in Woolwich wielding scaffolding poles threatening to beat up Muslims. No one can tell me that's not heinous stuff.

Racism is real, I've seen it beyond that and it's serious. Friends of mine have been attacked and chased in the past by racist bastards. How the F@@@ am I going to look them in the eye and say that racism isn't happening or is negligible?

I'm not suggesting you or anyone else is saying that, but the sort of Establishment BS that encourages racist behaviour in all races is the problem.

I mean why are all ethnic minorities lumped together? Within those stats it's probably not all the groups committing hate crimes equally.

And even with 'whites' why are they all lumped together? As if it's just caucasians vs ethnics. There are 'lily white' caucasians who come from some regions of Pakistan, with blonde hair, blue eyes and 'Nordic' features.

The whole thing is divide and rule crap designed by neoliberal politicians.

[DeppityDawg]

If we all stop caring then we end up with some horrible Edwardian type society where prejudice is celebrated.. ironicaly, the rich liberals would do the best out of such an unequal society, so caring purely to kick them in the goolies might be a prudent course of action. 

Look, Dynamics, you're an intelligent poster. The reason they swap between absolute numbers and percentages depending on what they are showing, is that percentages are less transparent when in absolute numbers terms, the figures suggest that either -

A) Ethnic minorities are committing race hate crimes at the rate of approx 2.5 times their representation in society
B) White people are lying about being victims of race hate crimes
C) The statistics are either wrong or misrepresented

For the purposes of C, let's assume that a white British Caucasian attacking a white Caucasian Polish man, while it is still a hate crime, it is not a "race" hate crime.

So what do you think is happening?

[Barry]

I'm not surprised the figures have gone up, when you consider the broad description provided by our Police:
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/what-is-hate-crime/

A hate crime is when someone commits a crime against you because of your disability, gender identity, race, sexual orientation, religion, or any other perceived difference.

It doesn't always include physical violence. Someone using offensive language towards you or harassing you because of who you are, or who they think you are, is also a crime. The same goes for someone posting abusive or offensive messages about you online.

If it happens to you, you might be tempted to shrug it off. But if you report the hate crime, we can investigate and stop it from getting worse – either for you or someone else.

[Borg Refinery]

And how does this in any way relate to the post I made that the Rotherham rapes were a sick race based crime, and so were violent crimes against black people?

The crime statistics are all very messed up, just 1% of rapes for example end in a conviction according to some stats, does that mean they don'r happen?

Are you implying that I somehow think false race crime reports are OK? I don't get how it relates to my post.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, and if so, I apologise, but this is the train I was responding to which started....

That wasn't ordinary people displaying prejudice, that was political correctness defined. And the thing is, I think many liberals would silently nod their head in agreement with such a policy. Or at least remain silent.

...which Cromwell replied...

No it doesn't.
I think many yanks would openly nod their heads at a black guy being killed by police that served him right add those who remain silent,and yes this was ordinary people who worked for a council.

Btw you said many,can you define that? I mean much was made of me saying many not long ago.

I'm defining why I think "many" liberals are politically correct and would nod in agreement with the idea of taking a black kid away from UKIP voting parents, would hesitate to believe a Council would ignore blatant racism against white children, or think that racism is predominantly a a "white persons disease". And that is because the whole way it is reported, with omissions and shifting between measurement metrics at will

Ah, fair enough. In that case, yes some people would no doubt agree with that - and as people have shown with evidence, but the question is how many is 'many'. I don't think anyone really knows.

I think we should give a shit about racism because it effects all groups as you seem to agree, incl whites. I think you do care, you are just angry at liberal hypocrisy as is pretty much the whole country.

If we all stop caring then we end up with some horrible Edwardian type society where prejudice is celebrated.. ironicaly, the rich liberals would do the best out of such an unequal society, so caring purely to kick them in the goolies might be a prudent course of action. 

[DeppityDawg]

And how does this in any way relate to the post I made that the Rotherham rapes were a sick race based crime, and so were violent crimes against black people?

The crime statistics are all very messed up, just 1% of rapes for example end in a conviction according to some stats, does that mean they don'r happen?

Are you implying that I somehow think false race crime reports are OK? I don't get how it relates to my post.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, and if so, I apologise, but this is the train I was responding to which started....

That wasn't ordinary people displaying prejudice, that was political correctness defined. And the thing is, I think many liberals would silently nod their head in agreement with such a policy. Or at least remain silent.

...which Cromwell replied...

No it doesn't.
I think many yanks would openly nod their heads at a black guy being killed by police that served him right add those who remain silent,and yes this was ordinary people who worked for a council.

Btw you said many,can you define that? I mean much was made of me saying many not long ago.

I'm defining why I think "many" liberals are politically correct and would nod in agreement with the idea of taking a black kid away from UKIP voting parents, would hesitate to believe a Council would ignore blatant racism against white children, or think that racism is predominantly a a "white persons disease". And that is because the whole way it is reported, with omissions and shifting between measurement metrics at will

There it is. I went to some lengths with the post. Basically, racially motivated hate crimes are approx 45% reported against white people, but less than 17% of the convictions are against other ethnicities. Is there an answer. Who gives a shit. I 'm starting not to is the point.

[Borg Refinery]

Following on from the handwringers central thread about the terrible excesses of white bias, lets have a thread about the actual figures on hate crime, as reported by ONS, Crime Survey England and Wales, etc. l refer to the most recent official document I can find, the House Of Commons Hate Crime Statistics briefing paper, dated 28th October 2019 (link below)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8537/

Having had to be told by my peers that racism is just wrong (because, of course, I'm white and going around being a racist is just what we do, isnt it?) I looked for these figures, because I can remember a thread on the old forum where it was discussed why, if racism among white people in the UK is so bad, that around half of all racially motivated murders were of white people. That thread didnt go well as I remember, with the usual suspects attempting to divert the focus back on message and the consequent argument over that. This is an old link dated 2006, but it gives the general idea

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race

So, anyway, back to the figures. First and foremost, its about how these are presented. If we go to the. Crime by Strand section on page 15, this gives the breakdown of who are the victims of racially motivated hate crime. For this page, 15, lets keep in mind the definition here racial, not other categories, but racially motivated. The report goes out of its way to disguise the facts. Here the report doesnt necessarily state whether these resulted in convictions, only that the victims reported that they had been a victim of racially motivated hate crime. Predictably, great play is made of those ethnic groups are statistically the highest proportion of victims yet singularly fails to make anything of the fact that overall, of all ethnicities, the rate of reported hate crimes as a proportion of the population remains pretty much stable at about 0.3/0.2% of the adult population

So the first thing to take from these figures is that reported racially motivated hate crime (in fact all reported hate crime), is NOT endemic in this country as the liberal media would have us believe. Even if we assume that non reported crimes were 5 times the reported figure, it would still represent less than 1% of adults reporting this kind of crime. And if the crime is not considered serious enough to report, then you have to draw your own conclusions

The second thing to take from these figures is how when they are reporting OVERALL figures, they are careful to stick to percentages, and nowhere in this table do the actual figures of total numbers of hate crimes reported by the victims ethnicity appear

Yet as soon as we move to reporting specifics like Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism, Sexual Orientation and Transgender, the actual numbers of cases reported SUDDENLY APPEAR to give more context?

So, why is this? At risk of becoming a Beelbeeb type sad **** with figures, we need some more figures before we can get a clearer picture how many adults are there in England and Wales (since thats what these figures are based on). This isnt easy to find but the last census in the UK (2011) gave a figure of 21% of the population of England and Wales (combined population 56.1 million) was under the age of 18

Therefore, the 0.1% of the (white ethnic) victims reporting racially motivated hate crimes represents a figure of around 45,000 people , or about 45% of the total (notwithstanding repeat or multiple reports). And if the numbers of reported racially motivated hate crimes remains at around or about 100,000 to 105,000 (which it does according to CSEW), then around HALF of all reported racially motivated hate crime is reported by white people

If we then fast forward to page 26, convictions, and especially item 3.2 (offenders by ethnicity) we see that the report now quickly reverts back to percentages again and wastes no time telling us (on message), that the majority of convictions for these offences are of white people (over 80% in all the years the report covers). The only tip of the hat it attempts is to tell us that this figure is consistently declining year on year, while the conviction rate for those calling themselves Black or Asian is steadily increasing, and particularly among Black offenders (4.8 to 7.4%)

So, what can be concluded from this. If around half of all recorded racially motivated hate crime is being reported by white people, but only about 15% of those convicted are of a different ethnicity, then what the feck is going on? Unless white people are abusing each other on the basis of their ethnicity or race (groan, but some liberal c**t will say it), then who is committing these reported crimes? Do they even exist?

Something is clearly wrong with the way this subject is being reported, or the figures themselves are not correct or are being selectively or even falsely represented. There are three explanations

1) White people may in some of these cases be counter accusing their victims as a way of disguising or excusing their racism. Nevertheless, it would be idiotic to assume that was the explanation for all cases
2) That racism in these cases may be reciprocal and may be a result (on all sides) of responses to perceived racism or hostility of another party
3) That the Police either do not take seriously or fail to put the same kind of resources into following up reports of racially motivated crime by white people. This would explain the low conviction to reported crimes rate. This is also given a great deal of credence by the horrendous cases of sexual abuse of thousands of young white girls that went on in this country for many years, and was ignored

Whatever the explanation, the subject of race relations in this country has been consistently and (in my view) deliberately skewed in the interests of presenting Multiculturalism as faultless, when that is not true. It has advantages and disadvantages, like anything else, but this is the path that was chosen for the UK, and that is what you are having, like it or not. The fact that Rotherham council came up in the thread that provoked me to write this long and tedious fecking thread only goes to show how terrified local and national government are of the whole subject

The truth is that ALL ethnicities have problems with intolerance and racism. The thing that annoys me intensely about this subject is how there is always some fecking handwringing white liberal trying to suggest that isnt the case

And how does this in any way relate to the post I made that the Rotherham rapes were a sick race based crime, and so were violent crimes against black people?

The crime statistics are all very messed up, just 1% of rapes for example end in a conviction according to some stats, does that mean they don'r happen?

Are you implying that I somehow think false race crime reports are OK? I don't get how it relates to my post.

[Borg Refinery]

I expect you will come back with all guns blazing, but ALL hate crime is under-reported because of the fear of retribution.

I have several times gone around to the houses of people who have been causing vulnerable and or disable people grief with physical, or verbal abuse and and vandalism and  quietly told them if they did not desist the police would be the least of their worries.
I won't tolerate such dim witted knuckle draggers.

You are one yourself, you seem to like to threaten people who only ever speak up on behalf of vulnerable people, which seems weird but there you go.

[papasmurf]

I expect you will come back with all guns blazing, but ALL hate crime is under-reported because of the fear of retribution.

I have several times gone around to the houses of people who have been causing vulnerable and or disable people grief with physical, or verbal abuse and and vandalism and  quietly told them if they did not desist the police would be the least of their worries.
I won't tolerate such dim witted knuckle draggers.

[DeppityDawg]

Can someone fix the title - its inserted its own figure 

Forum Admin - Done!

[papasmurf]

l refer to the most recent official document I can find, the House Of Commons Hate Crime Statistics briefing paper, dated 28th October 2019 (link below)

Latest data sets:-

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/mostrecenthatecrimedata

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/839172/hate-crime-1819-hosb2419.pdf

[Sheepy]

Those figures sound a bit racist.

[DeppityDawg]

Following on from the handwringers central thread about the terrible excesses of white bias, lets have a thread about the actual figures on hate crime, as reported by ONS, Crime Survey England and Wales, etc. l refer to the most recent official document I can find, the House Of Commons Hate Crime Statistics briefing paper, dated 28th October 2019 (link below)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8537/

Having had to be told by my peers that racism is just wrong (because, of course, I'm white and going around being a racist is just what we do, isnt it?) I looked for these figures, because I can remember a thread on the old forum where it was discussed why, if racism among white people in the UK is so bad, that around half of all racially motivated murders were of white people. That thread didnt go well as I remember, with the usual suspects attempting to divert the focus back on message and the consequent argument over that. This is an old link dated 2006, but it gives the general idea

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race

So, anyway, back to the figures. First and foremost, its about how these are presented. If we go to the. Crime by Strand section on page 15, this gives the breakdown of who are the victims of racially motivated hate crime. For this page, 15, lets keep in mind the definition here racial, not other categories, but racially motivated. The report goes out of its way to disguise the facts. Here the report doesnt necessarily state whether these resulted in convictions, only that the victims reported that they had been a victim of racially motivated hate crime. Predictably, great play is made of those ethnic groups are statistically the highest proportion of victims yet singularly fails to make anything of the fact that overall, of all ethnicities, the rate of reported hate crimes as a proportion of the population remains pretty much stable at about 0.3/0.2% of the adult population

So the first thing to take from these figures is that reported racially motivated hate crime (in fact all reported hate crime), is NOT endemic in this country as the liberal media would have us believe. Even if we assume that non reported crimes were 5 times the reported figure, it would still represent less than 1% of adults reporting this kind of crime. And if the crime is not considered serious enough to report, then you have to draw your own conclusions

The second thing to take from these figures is how when they are reporting OVERALL figures, they are careful to stick to percentages, and nowhere in this table do the actual figures of total numbers of hate crimes reported by the victims ethnicity appear

Yet as soon as we move to reporting specifics like Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism, Sexual Orientation and Transgender, the actual numbers of cases reported SUDDENLY APPEAR to give more context?

So, why is this? At risk of becoming a Beelbeeb type sad **** with figures, we need some more figures before we can get a clearer picture how many adults are there in England and Wales (since thats what these figures are based on). This isnt easy to find but the last census in the UK (2011) gave a figure of 21% of the population of England and Wales (combined population 56.1 million) was under the age of 18

Therefore, the 0.1% of the (white ethnic) victims reporting racially motivated hate crimes represents a figure of around 45,000 people , or about 45% of the total (notwithstanding repeat or multiple reports). And if the numbers of reported racially motivated hate crimes remains at around or about 100,000 to 105,000 (which it does according to CSEW), then around HALF of all reported racially motivated hate crime is reported by white people

If we then fast forward to page 26, convictions, and especially item 3.2 (offenders by ethnicity) we see that the report now quickly reverts back to percentages again and wastes no time telling us (on message), that the majority of convictions for these offences are of white people (over 80% in all the years the report covers). The only tip of the hat it attempts is to tell us that this figure is consistently declining year on year, while the conviction rate for those calling themselves Black or Asian is steadily increasing, and particularly among Black offenders (4.8 to 7.4%)

So, what can be concluded from this. If around half of all recorded racially motivated hate crime is being reported by white people, but only about 15% of those convicted are of a different ethnicity, then what the feck is going on? Unless white people are abusing each other on the basis of their ethnicity or race (groan, but some liberal c**t will say it), then who is committing these reported crimes? Do they even exist?

Something is clearly wrong with the way this subject is being reported, or the figures themselves are not correct or are being selectively or even falsely represented. There are three explanations

1) White people may in some of these cases be counter accusing their victims as a way of disguising or excusing their racism. Nevertheless, it would be idiotic to assume that was the explanation for all cases
2) That racism in these cases may be reciprocal and may be a result (on all sides) of responses to perceived racism or hostility of another party
3) That the Police either do not take seriously or fail to put the same kind of resources into following up reports of racially motivated crime by white people. This would explain the low conviction to reported crimes rate. This is also given a great deal of credence by the horrendous cases of sexual abuse of thousands of young white girls that went on in this country for many years, and was ignored

Whatever the explanation, the subject of race relations in this country has been consistently and (in my view) deliberately skewed in the interests of presenting Multiculturalism as faultless, when that is not true. It has advantages and disadvantages, like anything else, but this is the path that was chosen for the UK, and that is what you are having, like it or not. The fact that Rotherham council came up in the thread that provoked me to write this long and tedious fecking thread only goes to show how terrified local and national government are of the whole subject

The truth is that ALL ethnicities have problems with intolerance and racism. The thing that annoys me intensely about this subject is how there is always some fecking handwringing white liberal trying to suggest that isnt the case