I'm so disappointed

[srb7677]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

Yeah Labour want to keep FPTP, or have you not noticed?

He said he'd "consult members on it" without being specific.

Nu Lab pledged to FULLY introduce PR and NEVER did. Starmer can't even bring himself to go that far.

There are those of us in the party, especially on the left, who support electoral reform. I am one of them.

You have no power and no say in the matter.

In a democratic party we will have the power if we can win the vote. It is there to be fought for. We will never achieve it by running away.

You will never achieve it full stop. The last lefty pm as the gnome notes, was Attlee.

A new party is required as you conceded; to overturn the electoral system and everything else that needs reform.

If you imagine we are going to get parliamentarily viable new parties in the absence of electoral reform, you are indulging in naive wishful thinking

[Borg Refinery]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

Yeah Labour want to keep FPTP, or have you not noticed?

He said he'd "consult members on it" without being specific.

Nu Lab pledged to FULLY introduce PR and NEVER did. Starmer can't even bring himself to go that far.

There are those of us in the party, especially on the left, who support electoral reform. I am one of them.

You have no power and no say in the matter.

In a democratic party we will have the power if we can win the vote. It is there to be fought for. We will never achieve it by running away.

You will never achieve it full stop. The last lefty pm as the gnome notes, was Attlee.

A new party is required as you conceded; to overturn the electoral system and everything else that needs reform.

[srb7677]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

Yeah Labour want to keep FPTP, or have you not noticed?

He said he'd "consult members on it" without being specific.

Nu Lab pledged to FULLY introduce PR and NEVER did. Starmer can't even bring himself to go that far.

There are those of us in the party, especially on the left, who support electoral reform. I am one of them.

You have no power and no say in the matter.

In a democratic party we will have the power if we can win the vote. It is there to be fought for. We will never achieve it by running away.

[Borg Refinery]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

Yeah Labour want to keep FPTP, or have you not noticed?

He said he'd "consult members on it" without being specific.

Nu Lab pledged to FULLY introduce PR and NEVER did. Starmer can't even bring himself to go that far.

There are those of us in the party, especially on the left, who support electoral reform. I am one of them.

You have no power and no say in the matter.

[Borg Refinery]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

We do in scotland and the snp smashed it. Or have you not noticed?

And it took decades, Thatcherite devastation, New Labour getting all Tory, and the Lib Dems jumping in bed with the Tories for that to happen. It was handed to you lot on a plate and still it took you decades from your beginnings to break the FPTP barrier. It would take decades to do the same in England. Attempts to gain much traction for new parties, from the SDP to the Greens, and from UKIP to Respect, have all failed dismally at Westminster. I at 55 do not have decades to wait. Our nation and people will be devastated by then. I will fight for what I believe in in the best way I see fit now, and will not do your bidding. The day I dance to your tune will be the day I don a kilt and run down the high street shouting "Och aye the noo".

No, it took the European Union forcing devolution on Nu Lab for it to happen and for their electoral system to be what me and you want.

But you can keep rewriting history...

[srb7677]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

Yeah Labour want to keep FPTP, or have you not noticed?

He said he'd "consult members on it" without being specific.

Nu Lab pledged to FULLY introduce PR and NEVER did. Starmer can't even bring himself to go that far.

There are those of us in the party, especially on the left, who support electoral reform. I am one of them.

[Borg Refinery]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

Yeah Labour want to keep FPTP, or have you not noticed?

He said he'd "consult members on it" without being specific.

Nu Lab pledged to FULLY introduce PR and NEVER did. Starmer can't even bring himself to go that far.

[srb7677]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

We do in scotland and the snp smashed it. Or have you not noticed?

And it took decades, Thatcherite devastation, New Labour getting all Tory, and the Lib Dems jumping in bed with the Tories for that to happen. It was handed to you lot on a plate and still it took you decades from your beginnings to break the FPTP barrier. It would take decades to do the same in England. Attempts to gain much traction for new parties, from the SDP to the Greens, and from UKIP to Respect, have all failed dismally at Westminster. I at 55 do not have decades to wait. Our nation and people will be devastated by then. I will fight for what I believe in in the best way I see fit now, and will not do your bidding. The day I dance to your tune will be the day I don a kilt and run down the high street shouting "Och aye the noo".

[Thomas]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

We do in scotland and the snp smashed it. Or have you not noticed?

[Thomas]

Whomever I vote for locally under FPTP - whether Labour or otherwise - will not be Starmer since he will not be my local candidate. I intend to oppose Starmer from within and only vote for those policies I support.

Much as you try to brand me a Starmer supporter because I am in the Labour party - I was not one of those who voted for him - I do not own and refuse to own anything I disagree with. I am my own man. Your persistent attempts to insist otherwise are most tiresome and dishonest. You cannot for whatever personal reason afford me any integrity at all simply because I refuse to leave Labour but intend to fight from within. The left abandoned Labour in the Blair years and where the f**k did that get us?

more utter total pathetic diversionary waffle from you.

There is no fantasy left wing labour party with specific hard left polices for you to support.

By staying in the labour party , paying your subs and presumably out knocking on doors for them , you are in effect by default supporting starmer and your heroes in the blairite leadership of the party.

Everybody on this forum can see right through the utter guff you spout on here on a daily basis.

[srb7677]

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

In Europe they do not have the barrier of FPTP. Have you not noticed?

[Borg Refinery]

srv thinls Starmer is the answer but is so completely dishonest he can't even admit it,

That is a blatant lie and wilful misrepresentation. I don't think Starmer is the answer at all. I intend to oppose him from within.

..by voting for him (voting Lab), being an activist in the party to promote Lab winning - and their policies, by denigrating the Tories etc.

Yes you own their mistakes as Thomas said. That's not "bullying", it's the f**king truth but you just can't bear it can you?

Well it's no one's fault but yours. Your leader is a Saville-loving scumbag who should be given the bumps out of the commons straight into the Thames where he belongs, and if you would vote for him or help him in any way, YOU are on the hook for it too ok?

Whomever I vote for locally under FPTP - whether Labour or otherwise - will not be Starmer since he will not be my local candidate.

In GE's that's an MP who sits with Starmer in the Commons.

I intend to oppose Starmer from within and only vote for those policies I support.

You mean like New Labour lefties who had zero effect on their party and even Red Ken who took the offer of power?

Much as you try to brand me a Starmer supporter because I am in the Labour party - I was not one of those who voted for him - I do not own and refuse to own anything I disagree with.

Labour are the problem, they want to keep FPTP and everything broken in the country in place without alteration, you will simply not achieve power.

I am my own man. Your persistent attempts to insist otherwise are most tiresome and dishonest. You cannot for whatever personal reason afford me any integrity at all simply because I refuse to leave Labour but intend to fight from within. The left abandoned Labour in the Blair years and where the f**k did that get us?

..Further than staying in the party.

Do you even follow what goes on in Europe at all whatsoever? New parties come up all the time.

Just don't BS me that ig's not possible, that is a flat-out huge lie.

[srb7677]

srv thinls Starmer is the answer but is so completely dishonest he can't even admit it,

That is a blatant lie and wilful misrepresentation. I don't think Starmer is the answer at all. I intend to oppose him from within.

..by voting for him (voting Lab), being an activist in the party to promote Lab winning - and their policies, by denigrating the Tories etc.

Yes you own their mistakes as Thomas said. That's not "bullying", it's the f**king truth but you just can't bear it can you?

Well it's no one's fault but yours. Your leader is a Saville-loving scumbag who should be given the bumps out of the commons straight into the Thames where he belongs, and if you would vote for him or help him in any way, YOU are on the hook for it too ok?

Whomever I vote for locally under FPTP - whether Labour or otherwise - will not be Starmer since he will not be my local candidate. I intend to oppose Starmer from within and only vote for those policies I support.

Much as you try to brand me a Starmer supporter because I am in the Labour party - I was not one of those who voted for him - I do not own and refuse to own anything I disagree with. I am my own man. Your persistent attempts to insist otherwise are most tiresome and dishonest. You cannot for whatever personal reason afford me any integrity at all simply because I refuse to leave Labour but intend to fight from within. The left abandoned Labour in the Blair years and where the F@@@ did that get us?

[Borg Refinery]

srv thinls Starmer is the answer but is so completely dishonest he can't even admit it,

That is a blatant lie and wilful misrepresentation. I don't think Starmer is the answer at all. I intend to oppose him from within.

..by voting for him (voting Lab), being an activist in the party to promote Lab winning - and their policies, by denigrating the Tories etc.

Yes you own their mistakes as Thomas said. That's not "bullying", it's the fucking truth but you just can't bear it can you?

Well it's no one's fault but yours. Your leader is a Saville-loving scumbag who should be given the bumps out of the commons straight into the Thames where he belongs, and if you would vote for him or help him in any way, YOU are on the hook for it too ok?

[srb7677]

srv thinls Starmer is the answer but is so completely dishonest he can't even admit it,

That is a blatant lie and wilful misrepresentation. I don't think Starmer is the answer at all. I intend to oppose him from within.