Jamie Oliver warns against lowering food standards post-Brexit

[papasmurf]

^^^
From your link:

The United States has banned only four pesticides still approved for use in the E.U., Brazil or China.

I suggest that it's not an exacting appraisal...

I suggest you watch this on Channel 4 tonight at 8pm:-
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dirty-secrets-of-american-food

[papasmurf]

^^^
From your link:

The United States has banned only four pesticides still approved for use in the E.U., Brazil or China.

I suggest that it's not an exacting appraisal...

Have you got shares in American agrichemicals companies?

[patman post]

^^^
From your link:

The United States has banned only four pesticides still approved for use in the E.U., Brazil or China.

I suggest that it's not an exacting appraisal...

[papasmurf]

. And I doubt its animal husbandry is any worse than Europe's use of hormones, antibiotics, rearing stalls, etc,

America uses endocrine disrupting agrichemical, carcinogenic chemicals, and growth hormones that have been banned in Europe and Britain for many years.  Their food just is not safe. (Seriously.)

The campaign to stop food imports from America has been going on for a long time and with good reason.

https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/united-states-uses-85-pesticides-outlawed-in-other-countries-2019-06-06/

[patman post]

You seem oblivious to all the other problems I listed  with American food.  The endocrine disruptors, growth hormones, carcinogens, the use of banned in Europe and Britain agrichemicals,  the poor animal husbandry.

There are many problems with American food — mainly culinary. But the country has the best Western-oriented fast food and diners. And I doubt its animal husbandry is any worse than Europe's use of hormones, antibiotics, rearing stalls, etc, — just depends on the point of view of the onlooker...

[papasmurf]

Why does that mean chlorine washed chicken is to blame? Hygienic preparation and cooking are essential. Chlorine washed salads are sold in the UK, and they're not cooked before eating.

You seem oblivious to all the other problems I listed  with American food.  The endocrine disruptors, growth hormones, carcinogens, the use of banned in Europe and Britain agrichemicals,  the poor animal husbandry.

[patman post]

Really?

https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/#:~:text=We%20found%3A,times%20the%20percentage%20of%20population.

The US reports higher rates of illness from foodborne illness than in the UK. Annually, 14.7% (48m) of the US population suffer from an illness, versus 1.5% (1m) in the UK. This is nearly ten times the percentage of population. [see note 3 below]
The US reports higher rates of deaths from foodborne illness than in the UK. The annual death rate in the US is 3,000 per annum, versus 500 in the UK. [The US population is about 5 times the size of the UK.]
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning. The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England, 2006 to 2015 shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella. Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs.

Why does that mean chlorine washed chicken is to blame? Hygienic preparation and cooking are essential. Chlorine washed salads are sold in the UK, and they're not cooked before eating.

EU processors are allowed to use cold air and water to decontaminate poultry carcasses. Frankly, antimicrobial treatments like chlorine washes seem a safer option...

[Nalaar]

We have english nuclear weapons forced on us , we have english brexit forced on us , and a government in london that 75% of the scottish people voted against are currently bringing in legislation that underimines devolution that  three quarter of the scottish people voted for  , and you ask my if im concerned about food standards?

It is possible to be concerned about a range of subjects at the same time.

If Nalaar is going to censor posts and then adds his own opinions, it would help if he were to advise which hat he is wearing

Any posts I make as a moderator are self contained, and are titled "Mod Notice".

[papasmurf]

It also points out American consumers eat about 156 million chlorine-treated chickens a week, and are fine,

Really?

https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/#:~:text=We%20found%3A,times%20the%20percentage%20of%20population.

The US reports higher rates of illness from foodborne illness than in the UK. Annually, 14.7% (48m) of the US population suffer from an illness, versus 1.5% (1m) in the UK. This is nearly ten times the percentage of population. [see note 3 below]
The US reports higher rates of deaths from foodborne illness than in the UK. The annual death rate in the US is 3,000 per annum, versus 500 in the UK. [The US population is about 5 times the size of the UK.]
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning. The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England, 2006 to 2015 shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella. Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs.

[patman post]

Seems to me that if cooking kills campylobacter, it will also deal with whatever washing leaves behind. Farmers (and the EU) often summon up arguments as to why competitors shouldn't access their markets. The current interest in food in general provides easily converted allies.

According to a report from the Adam Smith Institute there are good reasons for the UK to scrap EU rules that currently ban chlorine-treated poultry in this country.

In a new briefing paper called Chlorinated chicken - Why You Shouldn't Give A Cluck,  it argues British consumers could enjoy much cheaper poultry if the ban on chlorine treatment were lifted. "US methods produce fresh chicken at 79% of the price of equivalent birds on British supermarket shelves," it says.

It also points out American consumers eat about 156 million chlorine-treated chickens a week, and are fine, and that the risk associated with chlorine treatment are tiny. "Adults would need to eat 5% of their bodyweight in chlorinated chicken each day to be at risk of ill health from poultry alone," it says. "Brits would have to eat three entire chlorine-washed chickens every day for an extended period to risk harm. Immersing poultry meat in chlorine dioxide solution of the strength used in the United States reduces prevalence of salmonella from 14% in controls to 2%. EU chicken samples typically have 15-20% salmonella."

The USDA has approved several antimicrobial rinses for use in poultry processing, including chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite, trisodium phosphate and peroxyacids, and meat treated with such rinses is considered safe for consumers to eat.

And, in fact, their EU colleagues agree. The European food safety regulator EFSA looked at the issue of chlorine treatment and found "chemical substances in poultry are unlikely to pose an immediate or acute health risk for consumers."

But many Europeans argue it's not simply about whether chlorine treatment is safe. They believe a farm to fork approach of avoiding bacteria contamination delivers better public health outcomes all round – and that allowing chlorine treatment disincentivises industry to put in place proper hygiene practices.

In a piece from 2014, Monica Goyens of the EU consumer body BEUC wrote: "Essentially, what we are concerned about is not just the chemical itself, but rather the risk that these treatments will be seen as the "easy fix" to clean up dirty meat. Let's be clear – no chemical rinse will ever remove all bacteria from meat heavily contaminated as a result of poor hygiene."

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/food-safety/chlorinated-chicken-explained-why-do-the-americans-treat-their-poultry-with-chlorine/555618.article

[papasmurf]

Then don't eat American chicken. Or vegetables from East Anglia. Or do you think the Norfolk gangmasters bother with porto loos and check that the pickers wash their hands afterwards?

Nothing will stop you worrying yourself to death Pappy, but if you are really worried you might try buying Mrs Pappy a bunch of flowers and asking her to leave the dinner in the oven for at least 20 minutes at 200 degrees centigrade. Any bug that survives deserves to take over the world.

I suggest you stop the personal insults and take some notice of the very real dangers of eating substandard American food.
It isn't just the chlorinated chicken, it is the growth hormone used in meat production and the many agrichemicals used in America including endocrine disruptors, carcinogens that have been banned in Britain in Europe in some cases for decades.
Despite the long term bans many are persistent in the environment.
The protests against American food imports is widespread and growing. That many British supermarkets are not going stock it should be a wake up call for you.
If the Tories break their promise to make sure all food imports are the same welfare an safety as UK produded food it will cost them dear.

[Borchester]

They are not groundless, all chlorine washing does is stun the bacteria it does not kill it, so an import check will find no bugs because they are inert. (This has been discussed and referenced on the forum several times:-

More at link:-

https://www.cleanroomtechnology.com/news/article_page/Microbiologists_put_a_question_mark_over_chlorine_washing/143773

A microbiological research in the UK has found that the American technique of cleaning poultry with chlorine, which is at the heart of the Brexit trade row, does not kill listeria and salmonella.

The investigation, carried out by a team of microbiologists from Southampton University, found that bacilli such as listeria and salmonella remain completely active after chlorine washing. The process merely makes it impossible to culture them in the lab, giving a false impression that the chlorine washing has been effective.

Then don't eat American chicken. Or vegetables from East Anglia. Or do you think the Norfolk gangmasters bother with porto loos and check that the pickers wash their hands afterwards?

Nothing will stop you worrying yourself to death Pappy, but if you are really worried you might try buying Mrs Pappy a bunch of flowers and asking her to leave the dinner in the oven for at least 20 minutes at 200 degrees centigrade. Any bug that survives deserves to take over the world.

[Barry]

Cook it properly is the answer, too.

[papasmurf]

Worries US chlorine washed chicken seem groundless

They are not groundless, all chlorine washing does is stun the bacteria it does not kill it, so an import check will find no bugs because they are inert. (This has been discussed and referenced on the forum several times:-

More at link:-

https://www.cleanroomtechnology.com/news/article_page/Microbiologists_put_a_question_mark_over_chlorine_washing/143773

A microbiological research in the UK has found that the American technique of cleaning poultry with chlorine, which is at the heart of the Brexit trade row, does not kill listeria and salmonella.

The investigation, carried out by a team of microbiologists from Southampton University, found that bacilli such as listeria and salmonella remain completely active after chlorine washing. The process merely makes it impossible to culture them in the lab, giving a false impression that the chlorine washing has been effective.

[patman post]

One big problem with food here is that a large proportion (probably the bulk) of the UK population is more concerned about the cost of food rather than its quality. That may be a hangover from rationing and shortages which led, in the past, to well-deserved jibes about British cooking.

Worries US chlorine washed chicken seem groundless — millions of people happily immerse themselves in chlorinated swimming pools, and drink and wash in chlorinated water. It might even be better if the UK chlorine-washed its home produced poultry because studies have found over 50% of the chicken sold in the UK carries campylobacter. Only a few campylobacter cells are needed to cause food poisoning and it is the most common cause of food poisoning in the UK. Campylobacter poisoning can cause stomach pain, severe diarrhoea, and sometimes vomiting for between 2 and 5 days.

Knowing this, the NHS recommends we don't wash chicken when preparing it for cooking as water droplets carrying campylobacter can travel more than 50cm in every direction.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/never-wash-raw-chicken/