LOCKDOWN 2 - the November experience

[Streetwalker]

Where I live several pubs in the area closed down last year well before the pandemic. I doubt any of those will open again.

Well no pubs will mean less tourists so you should be happy 

[papasmurf]

Trouble is Thomas is that the pubs may never open again .

Where I live several pubs in the area closed down last year well before the pandemic. I doubt any of those will open again.

[Sheepy]

Well, I was listening to the radio the other day and it was saying this is a time for reflection and deciding what the future will look like, so at a wild guess, somebody has a plan to sell somewhere, the masses just ain't used to enough control yet, so they need more NHS saving and new Covid rules, while Boris spouts war sayings.

[Thomas]

Trouble is Thomas is that the pubs may never open again . Maybe its the plan , stop us talking to each other . The pub as we well know is where rebellion starts . A half pissed idea that snowballs into a political movement  is what governments fear most .

Maybe thats it , the reason for closing down the economy and excuse to impose draconian limitations on our movement is to silence the masses .

Freedom I say , Freeeeedom !

I know mate. Totally agree.

Most of our local pubs are obviously  struggling , and the one i go to is part of a chain who have been told they are ok till xmas but if this shit carries on then they are all in trouble.

When the scottish and uk governments own figures show that less than 2 % of cases are being transmitted in a pub , yet 20 % of cases are being transmitted in supermarkets and shops , and many more in schools colleges and universities , you can clearly see why pubs and restaurants etc are feeling extremely aggrieved and hard done by when they are being shut down regularly and the others kept open.

I wonder how much of the virus gets transmitted when cant`s are queing for click and collect at many of the big stores?

See all the celtic fans were out protesting yesterday about neil lennon........part of that is anger and frustration about lockdown boiling over as well.

Its like a feckin tinderbox waiting to go up at the minute , and if this shite carries on much longer i wont be surprised if it does.

As they say , governments dont want to let a good crises go to waste........

[Streetwalker]

Then we can all get back down the pub and start arguing about the latest trade deals on offer from the eu , and if the irish border really matters , and what next for labour and the liberals.?

Trouble is Thomas is that the pubs may never open again . Maybe its the plan , stop us talking to each other . The pub as we well know is where rebellion starts . A half pissed idea that snowballs into a political movement  is what governments fear most .

Maybe thats it , the reason for closing down the economy and excuse to impose draconian limitations on our movement is to silence the masses .

Freedom I say , Freeeeedom !

[johnofgwent]

The original (back in April, My, June) figures for deaths was anyone who had died after a positive test.

This would include the hypothetical "asymptomatic, but by a bus" fatality.

It was a very crude measure.  Put in place for speed.

This came to light sometime around June (iirc) when that total read around 45k.  They redid the figures with the 28 day time limit and lost around 5k deaths from the figures.

The current daily total is the "28 day" measure which might still include a bus victim.

However the much more accurate ONS figures, which look at the death certificate, are also available

Their primary disadvantage is the time lag (14 days).

Using this much more accurate figure currently stands at a little over 66k as of 13th November.

I'd like to believe you, but the notes in the Excel spreadsheets I downloaded from the ONS are, at best, openly vague at what they are measuring.


And that's before we deal with the addition of people to whom Covid "contributed"


I simply have no faith in the figures because the notes "explaining" them seem too obtuse to be properly categorised.


The past antics which I agree were adjusted still do nothing to reassure me.


Why ? Because once a presenter of detail is shown to be presenting a untrue picture their credibility is forever damaged.


I have asked my elected representatives to provide me a detailed account of what these figures actually mean.


Most don't want to and the few who realise I'll vote for them if they comply are being stonewalled.


I don't know what the reality is. I'm pretty sure it's not the picture being painted by compulsive liars ...

[Thomas]

Other than the lag, it's very accurate. Probably the most accurate measure possible.

never mind mate , the chinese sniffles will soon be over and you can have  your pick of three vaccines.

Then we can all get back down the pub and start arguing about the latest trade deals on offer from the eu , and if the irish border really matters , and what next for labour and the liberals.?

You wont know what to do with yourself beelbeeb without all the doom and gloom of the daily covid deaths.

You could give up the day job and become a professional mourner instead.?

[BeElBeeBub]

More accurate is a stretch of the meaning of the word accurate , still extremely flawed as im sure you will agree.

Other than the lag, it's very accurate. Probably the most accurate measure possible.

[DeppityDawg]

That'll go down well with Mrs DD.

*groan* don't even joke mate. She's got that steely glint in her eye. You know that look when they are going to plough through everything and anything thats in their way like a runaway train. This is just the start of it. Her phone has been pinging all morning, all the furniture has been moved around, and now shes disappeared off to B&M for who knows what reason. 

[Thomas]

Using this much more accurate figure currently stands at a little over 66k as of 13th November.

More accurate is a stretch of the meaning of the word accurate , still extremely flawed as im sure you will agree.

[BeElBeeBub]

And that really is the problem. The data. we all know the original figures were faked as they included anyone who died of anything within 60 days of testing positive including being run over by a bus and NOBODY in a suit has actually stood up and apologised for that bullshit. where is the penitent scientist draped in sackcloth and ashes admitting they f**ked this up and now going on to explain how they have changed their mind and done things differently ? One would expect that if they wanted to be taken seriously, they would do this but they have not.


I made several attempts to try and understand what trhe figures mean, i have not been able to obtain a clear statement. The notes and explanations seem deliberately obtuse. Now maybe, just maybe, i find them obtuse, or obfuscating, because better scientists than i ever got to be trained me to analyse scientific reports to detect what was straightforward and what was not.


My attempts to get clarity have been ignored by those elected to represent me.


I must ask why, and i naturally assume that it is because they want me to believe bullshit.

The original (back in April, My, June) figures for deaths was anyone who had died after a positive test.

This would include the hypothetical "asymptomatic, but by a bus" fatality.

It was a very crude measure.  Put in place for speed.

This came to light sometime around June (iirc) when that total read around 45k.  They redid the figures with the 28 day time limit and lost around 5k deaths from the figures.

The current daily total is the "28 day" measure which might still include a bus victim.

However the much more accurate ONS figures, which look at the death certificate, are also available

Their primary disadvantage is the time lag (14 days).

Using this much more accurate figure currently stands at a little over 66k as of 13th November.

[Barry]

Here's the government, aka nanny state telling us what we have to do at Christmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55107473

The documents says:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spi-b-insights-on-celebrations-and-observances-during-covid-19-29-october-2020

They highlight the particular importance of involving women in the decision-making.

The document says: "Women carry the burden of creating and maintaining family traditions and activities at Christmas.

"Messaging should be supportive of women adapting traditions and encouraging those around them to share the burden and to be supportive of any alterations to adapt for Covid-19 restrictions."

That'll go down well with Mrs DD.

[Sheepy]

I think that this from Page 10 is hugely significant and I hope that MPs take note before agreeing to further destroy the economy of this country.

They could have built a brand new economy with the amount they have thrown away trying to keep Covid at bay.

[Barry]

Who authored that briefing paper ??


It seemed bereft of the usual hype on the front page, to the point of anonymity

This document has been authored by:
▪ Clare Craig BM BCh FRCPath (clare.craig@gmail.com)
▪ Jonathan Engler MBChB LLB (jengler@outlook.com)
▪ Mike Yeadon BSc Hons (Biochem-tox) PhD (Pharmacol) (yeadon_m@yahoo.co.uk)
▪ Christian McNeill LL.B and Dip LP (christian.mcneill@icloud.com)

I think that this from Page 10 is hugely significant and I hope that MPs take note before agreeing to further destroy the economy of this country.

In a SAGE paper from June, it was stated that for other RNA viruses the OFPR ranged from 0.8 to
4.0%. For COVID testing, a figure of less than 1% has been suggested. We know that the quality of
the testing lab can dramatically affect the FPR, and we know that there have been significant quality
issues as volumes were ramped up at a faster speed than has ever been done before. So, 1% is most
likely a significant under-estimate of the current situation.
As for how many people have it, the ONS say it is currently around 1.2% - but this is simply not
credible, when in late April / early May they claimed that only 0.27% had it, and the Liverpool mass
testing found only 0.6% (around the same as the operational FPR for the "Lateral Flow Test" which
would mean there was no COVID in Liverpool).

[johnofgwent]

Who authored that briefing paper ??


It seemed bereft of the usual hype on the front page, to the point of anonymity