Why we need more nuclear power plants. Wind cannot be relied upon for 40GW

[Barry]

I saw an estimate today that reckons these proposals will cost an extra 28 billion per year on electricity costs which divided up amongst our 29 million households is roughly £1000 on each.
Not to mention the increased demand for charging electric cars after 2030. Solar power won't do much for that as they like to recharge them at night.

[Sheepy]

The reality is we COULD go for a non carbon energy policy but Todo do at prices that won't be above the reach of everyone except the Champagne Swilling Thunberg cultists, we need literally dozens of small nuclear reactors akin to the rings that power our trident boats, built in an industrial fashion not like the extravagances of the past. And there is just no way Thunbergs Cultists are going to allow that.


So I say convert a coal fired plant to burn Thunberg cultists ...

I told you my bike idea wasn't so nuts.

[johnofgwent]

The reality is we COULD go for a non carbon energy policy but Todo do at prices that won't be above the reach of everyone except the Champagne Swilling Thunberg cultists, we need literally dozens of small nuclear reactors akin to the rings that power our trident boats, built in an industrial fashion not like the extravagances of the past. And there is just no way Thunbergs Cultists are going to allow that.


So I say convert a coal fired plant to burn Thunberg cultists ...

[Barry]

At 51.5 N its 691 watts per square metre at noon on a decent cloudless day. About 1050 in high summer. I'm sure my research from 1976 is on a server in the edu domain somewhere ...

Currently providing 7% of our power, see attached graph. Trouble is, in winter when we need it most, it's only up for ~8 hours a day.
Note the French have surplus from their lovely nuclear power stations and are giving us 2GW.
It's a very windy weather map across the country and we are getting 21% 7.8GW.
To get Johnson's fabled 40 GW would need  another 4 times the generating capacity that we have now, and for it to be windy like this every day of the year. Fable is Johnson's strength.

[johnofgwent]

Anyone who thinks solar power is of much use in cloudy Britain is deluded. Especially above 52N
It's about wind power Dyno, do try to stay focused. Having said that, you are the only person interested, so I won't be too hard on you.

At 51.5 N its 691 watts per square metre at noon on a decent cloudless day. About 1050 in high summer. I'm sure my research from 1976 is on a server in the edu domain somewhere ...

[HDQQ]

Anyone who thinks solar power is of much use in cloudy Britain is deluded. Especially above 52N
It's about wind power Dyno, do try to stay focused. Having said that, you are the only person interested, so I won't be too hard on you.

Throughout yesterday and today about half our UK's electricity was generated by wind. In a few years time, when we have more windfarms, mostly offshore, there will probably be days when just about all of our electricity comes from wind.  And then there will be days when there's not much wind anywhere and so not much electricity generated from it.  Solar generates a significant proportion of our electricity during the middle hours of summer days but not much on overcast winter days though.

In the first quarter of this year, UK's electricity generation was:

Renewables: 47.0% (this includes biomass at around 10%, which isn't 'clean').
Gas:            31.4%
Nuclear        15.1%
Coal              3.8%
Other            2.7%

Source:    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/25/renewable-energy-breaks-uk-record-in-first-quarter-of-2020

With about one third of our electricity generated by wind and solar, people can no longer say these things don't work.

[Sheepy]

Anyone who thinks solar power is of much use in cloudy Britain is deluded. Especially above 52N
It's about wind power Dyno, do try to stay focused. Having said that, you are the only person interested, so I won't be too hard on you.

I use a solar panel, to generate and store enough electricity to power the UK, when they are fairly useless in winter and as you say, when cloudy generate very little, It would be impossible for area needed versus population plus required generation.

[Sheepy]

Funnily enough, that was suggested in the 1940s when the UK was short on power and long on German POWs. The idea was to have them peddling away and powering the UK. The idea was dropped, probably because the only reliable source of food was sugar and there were fears that if they feed the Jerries on that the resultant dental bill would have bankrupted the NHS 

You made that up, the NHS wasn't even but a twinkle in the eye. Ha just showing your Liberal credentials. Warp drives or bikes. Barry will only start making suggestions about Nuclear power which will make Pat drill holes to the Earths core Of course the resulting Earthquakes might be fun. The release of magma might be dodgy though.

[Barry]

Electricity suppliers have rightly advised us to reduce ppower consumption to the bare minimum, which has been quite successful. For example our average daily use is <4 kWh per day.
We have invented washing machines and refrigerators that use less power.
In our house we have the luxury of choosing good weather days to dry washing, so the tumble drier stays rarely used in the garage.
All our light bulbs have been replaced from filaments, then to CFLs and lately we only have 5W LED bulbs.

However, our bills have not gone down. It seems the electricity companies must take a certain amount from each house supplied, to compensate for lower use, the daily charges have been increased. So called "free energy" from wind farms is actually very expensive to get online and maintain. Lower use by consumers should be rewarded.

My option would be for nuclear power to be the generator of choice, whatever the cost.
It is reliable and we need reliable supplies. The French have masses of nuclear power stations and it provides nearly all of their power.
It is also zero carbon emissions for those that are interested.

[Borg Refinery]

esla designed a prototype for delivering electricity to everybody for free originally. Something called 'radiant energy'.


https://scholars.direct/Articles/electronics-and-communication/jec-1-001.php?jid=electronics-and-communication



Apparently it is proven to work but only at low power..

[Borg Refinery]

I think research into fusion should continue — who knows what it could lead to — the development of more robust non-stick coatings for cooking pots to stew sheep shanks in, perhaps?

Goes well with a wine jue and a particular vintage..

Solar power in the UK is a usable resource — it already economically generates heating and electricity and is likely to become more widespread. It's just currently less constant than wind-power which, itself, is not totally constant.

Yeah, which is why we of course require a mix, but as you allude these aren't the only sources of renewable energy as I'm sure you well know, clearly you read about these things.

If I was a betting investor I might take a punt on companies investigating the earth's core as a source of heat and power: — heat in the deep earth from when the planet formed and not yet been lost; frictional heating, caused by denser core material sinking to the centre of the planet; and heat from the decay of radioactive elements.

That's one possibility, but drilling deep into the earth may have unintended side effects.

They wanted to produce electric from bacteria too https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/electric-bacteria-create-currents-out-thin-and-thick-air

The last of these makes me wonder if anyone is looking at whether there's any use to be made of the radioactive waste from nuclear power plants that's still active for supposedly thousands of years...

Yep they are.

https://www.wired.com/story/are-radioactive-diamond-batteries-a-cure-for-nuclear-waste/

[Borchester]

I was thinking instead of taxing those on Bikes who are just doing it to be cool and feel they are doing their bit, we build a large dynamo and give them all the exercise they want connecting their bikes and they can peddle away all day and night producing power.

Funnily enough, that was suggested in the 1940s when the UK was short on power and long on German POWs. The idea was to have them peddling away and powering the UK. The idea was dropped, probably because the only reliable source of food was sugar and there were fears that if they feed the Jerries on that the resultant dental bill would have bankrupted the NHS 

[Sheepy]

Don't think for a minute you can throw a sickie, we will have dawg as minister of bicycle power generation.

[patman post]

Supposedly they are building a prototype..


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03039-9


Your sarc aside, we can generate a fair amount of electric from solar power even in the UK, maybe not the majority but a large minority.

It would be useful if we could re-nationalize our utilities and stop companies like EDF from exploiting us, let alone french sheepish childish sycophants who support them at every opportunity.

I think research into fusion should continue — who knows what it could lead to — the development of more robust non-stick coatings for cooking pots to stew sheep shanks in, perhaps?

Solar power in the UK is a usable resource — it already economically generates heating and electricity and is likely to become more widespread. It's just currently less constant than wind-power which, itself, is not totally constant.

If I was a betting investor I might take a punt on companies investigating the earth's core as a source of heat and power: — heat in the deep earth from when the planet formed and not yet been lost; frictional heating, caused by denser core material sinking to the centre of the planet; and heat from the decay of radioactive elements.

The last of these makes me wonder if anyone is looking at whether there's any use to be made of the radioactive waste from nuclear power plants that's still active for supposedly thousands of years...

[Sheepy]

As far as I can see, the earth receives seven thousand times as much energy from the sun as we currently consume. So I imagine that the solution will be to lay out zillions of solar panels to take care of the Good Lord's bounty. But not near me. It would be like living in a business park

I was thinking instead of taxing those on Bikes who are just doing it to be cool and feel they are doing their bit, we build a large dynamo and give them all the exercise they want connecting their bikes and they can peddle away all day and night producing power.