When did you become a Nazi...?

[Nalaar]

I don't believe that is true, but I must admit that I have not read the entire exchange. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to point to where Candace explicitly said Harry Stiles (or any other bloke) cannot wear what he wishes to?

You don't have to read the entire exchage. Owens opening comment is "There is no society that can survive without strong men. The East knows this. In the west, the steady feminization of our men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to our children is not a coincidence. It is an outright attack. Bring back manly men."

Nonsense. There is nothing inherently "toxic" about masculinity, any more than there is anything toxic about femininity.

Both have toxic traits within our society, and those traits are best confronted and removed.

Presumably, you don't believe that all Muslims are terrorists...so I'll assume you don't believe all men are "toxic" either.

Correct, but we should be acting in a way to suppress and eradicate Muslim terrorists, etc.

As for "toxic femininity"that is not a term I have seen argued anywhere in the media or shared among feminists themselves.

It's a term i've heard allot, and it holds. Indeed Candace Ownes has been describing 3rd Wave Feminism as toxic for years.

As I said, I don't believe anyone is. And by the same token, fawning, browbeating or encouraging young men (and society at larger) to believe they are somehow incomplete unless they paint their nails and wear a dress not a step forward.

Agreed, but a man wearing a dress or painting their nails is not a step backwards either.

[DeppityDawg]

But the newfangked 'cancel culture' antifa are now mainstream party activists ie liberals' I'mtelling you they are different and seem more focused on attacking others, where 'old' Antifa only give a shit about Nazis. They don't waste time on other stuff. I'm telling you their movemebt has been hijacked too just like BLM.

Well, it appears that some of them are distinctly "middle class" anarchists, I'll concede that. And if you say they have been hijacked, fair enough, but for me they were all still complete ****s in the first place, so nothing has changed 

And if you saw what I wrote,this was stated by me too. The difference is what he proposes as the cure and what you do.

I haven't really read his posts often enough to see what his solutions are - he doesn't offer much in the way of an actual debate, and when you've read one superior PP post, you've mostly read them all. Pat has said numerous times that he only comes on here to "entertain" himself by mocking the "bigots". The spectacular irony is lost on him.

But even she refuted her own legacy. I'm hoping you'll take my word for it × I wish I could show you what she said. No more proof is needed, even she hated what she did.

S'ok, I believe you. I don't think anyone could have presided over what she did and not have some regrets. Regret is something that tends to haunt you more as you get older

That's just one side of her, it doesn't tell you the rest of her beliefs.

But could you not say that about any personality or politician? I think she's still young, and the necessary gravitas (if that the right word) to be a serious politician generally only comes with age. Until someone comes up with a video of her boiling kittens alive, I'm going to think positively of her

You could say in fact, the more Liberals dislike her, the more I'm going to be a fan 

They're spending cash in places like Chicago probably because 9 year old kids are being shot and killed weekly. Because mothers who protest gun violence get killed while protesting in drive by shootings. There are several deaths per day in south Chicago.

This is true. And BLM, Antifa and the rest of the Liberal "protest" circus's solution of defunding Police departments is going to help how exactly? Minneapolis defunded their PD to the tune of $1million. Unsurprisingly, crime went up.

Have you looked at US city council budgets? You are saying they spend every penny on LGBTQ programs?
You have no idea what it's spent on, let's be honest. If you are sure they waste it all on 'gay hispanic' programs then show me..

No, this is true. But that's not exactly what I said. I said "if you were opposed...", meaning that if your perception [ie Republicans] of Democrat city governance was negative, why would you elect to approve their budgets?

As for what they do spend it on, I'd be willing to bet Democrat run cities have a far higher percentage of their budget allocated to "soft" spending (ie not Police or enforcement) than Republican run ones. In the example above, Minneapolis is introducing "Violence Interupters"

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/10/14/meet-the-minneapolis-violence-interrupters

I'm not going to react. Hey, lets give it a fair chance. But I know how it will end.

And then of course, there Seattle...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/washington/articles/2020-10-24/seattle-lgbtq-commission-calls-on-mayor-to-resign

...where the "LGBTQ Commission" ( ) is calling on the Lesbian Mayor to resign "for failing to protect the human rights of the people of the city" Apparently, shes "failed" to protect community members "from very real harm and violence that has been leveraged against Black and brown LGBTQ+ people". Leveraged? Interesting use of language when you're looking for ways to explain your way of your own feck ups.

So anyway....run this by me again...who exactly was attacking the Police, burning down property, looting businesses and occupying government buildings?

But no, no, of course you are right, Dynamics...I don't "know" what these cities spend their budgets on...but these people are so fecked up they defy any logical analysis, and I know I wouldn't trust a single one of them. I'd sooner live in a tent in barren field than be governed by these ****s

I think she's a pawn with some rhetorical flourish, akd she isn't quite pretty enough if you ask me.

Fair enough. I like her.

[Borg Refinery]

I don't believe that. They want to stop "nazis" by being like nazis? They are intolerant of any opposing view, they've no hesitation in using violence to attack their political opponents (or anyone who might look like an opponent) and they use cancel culture and intimidation to shut down debate. What exactly is different about "Antifa" and the "nazis" they claim to be stopping, other than the name? Are we that polarised now that attacking minorites is seen as bad, but attacking people who don't share your views, well we'll just look the other way?

Listen, I don't like extremists of any kind, and Antifa are extremists in my book

They are, but I'm not suggesting we 'look the other way' I said fairly plainly they're thugs and will be held criminally liable, as they expect, being anarcho's and commies etc.

But the newfangked 'cancel culture' antifa are now mainstream party activists ie liberals' I'mtelling you they are different and seem more focused on attacking others, where 'old' Antifa only give a shit about Nazis. They don't waste time on other stuff. I'm telling you their movemebt has been hijacked too just like BLM.

And Trump's DHS wanted to label them a foreign sponsored terror group..

Its rare that he and I share the same (or rather a similar) position, but in many ways I think he is correct. You can dress it up whichever way you like, but Labour does not serve the interests of the disadvantaged.

And if you saw what I wrote,this was stated by me too. The difference is what he proposes as the cure and what you do.

I'm no lover of Thatcher, but its simply partisan to refuse to see the things she got right. You go on about the north, but many of the industries up here were dying long before she came to power, hamstrung by a spiteful Union hold on an ever decreasingly profitable, unmodernised industrial base that could no longer compete with emerging economies they used to sell those goods to. Sure, lets not forget the old guard of industry supported by her party had help starve them of cash by profit taking in the first place, but it was not a case of "evil Thatcher" and the "good people" of the north being shafted.

But even she refuted her own legacy. I'm hoping you'll take my word for it × I wish I could show you what she said. No more proof is needed, even she hated what she did.

No one suggested the unions were perfect, there was speculation that Scargill was actually a plant along with some other union shop stewards to stir things up, to get them out, so they'd have the excuse they needed to shut it all down. Idk if that's true but it wouldn't exactly surprise me.

The only truly successful strikes were ones that the trade unions tried to stop(!), both historically and recently.... that's the truth. I agree our industries were outdated wrt the 80's strikes, the miners, wapping printers etc, but you don't just make everyone redundant overnight. You slowly plan and stage it, so everyone is simply readjusted and lands in new lines of work, but they didn't do that.

The shock is still felt up north and in wales esoecially. They are right to be upset in a lot of places.


The unforgivable bit was that once those industries had been destroyed, there was little to no attempt to invest in these areas to replace them, thus baking decay into communities for generations. But an equally spiteful attitude of these communities towards any attempt to compromise or modernise helped accelerate the inevitable

Why should anyone compromise with someone who's attitude is "feck you, do as I say"?

I don't accept that. Candace does not repeat liberal mantras and articles of faith about victimhood and "systemic oppression", thats why shes rubbished by the left. Like the video you posted, shes real enough to point out that the problems are not simply a case of disadvantage, and that people have to take a hand in their own futures too. What is actually WRONG about that view?

That's just one side of her, it doesn't tell you the rest of her beliefs.

What is actually wrong about saying, well no, we aren't just 'victims', we are strong capable people but we need a CHANCE"? You can argue all day about such areas in the US being "starved of cash", but if you are idealogically opposed to that cash being spent on the furtherance of "Gay hispanic awareness events" and "he to she programmes" and other celebrations of victimhood, instead of creating jobs, ambition and opportunity, then why should you approve of it? Why is she so bad because she doesn't share your views?

They're spending cash in places like Chicago probably because 9 year old kids are being shot and killed weekly. Because mothers who protest gun violence get killed while protesting in drive by shootings. There are several deaths per day in south Chicago.

Have you looked at US city council budgets? You are saying they spend every penny on LGBTQ programs?

You have no idea what it's spent on, let's be honest. If you are sure they waste it all on 'gay hispanic' programs then show me..

Fancy her? She's a very attractive woman, but she is also intelligent and articulate and she happens to express views that chime with me. She is also not "anti-male", which so many on the liberal left now are. Her views cross ethnicity boundaries with ease, and she could easily get solid support among centre ground white conservatives. And if she should take advantage of a kind of "bambi Blair" effect to help her career, then power to her. As I've said, US politics could do a lot worse than having someone like her in the White House.

I think she's a pawn with some rhetorical flourish, akd she isn't quite pretty enough if you ask me.

EDIT: On reflection, what I'd also like to add Dynamics, is that whilst you and I may have differences of opinion, you respect the opinions of others even where you don't share them, and in return I respect that. Even if you are a wishy washy liberal, you aren't a bad one

👍

[DeppityDawg]

I don't think that's generally proper Antifa's aim, they just want to stop bona fide Nazis. Dunno about this newfangled stuff.

I don't believe that. They want to stop "nazis" by being like nazis? They are intolerant of any opposing view, they've no hesitation in using violence to attack their political opponents (or anyone who might look like an opponent) and they use cancel culture and intimidation to shut down debate. What exactly is different about "Antifa" and the "nazis" they claim to be stopping, other than the name? Are we that polarised now that attacking minorites is seen as bad, but attacking people who don't share your views, well we'll just look the other way?

Listen, I don't like extremists of any kind, and Antifa are extremists in my book

Well he is from Stokey, I'm from around there originally. It is so snobby it makes pat look like Rab C Nes.

His position is that Thatcher is the best thing ever. She refuted her own legacy. I saw it. She said it was wrong. Sadly, I can't find the video anywhere online but I hope you'll take my word for it - I promise I'll try somehow to grab it and show you.

Its rare that he and I share the same (or rather a similar) position, but in many ways I think he is correct. You can dress it up whichever way you like, but Labour does not serve the interests of the disadvantaged. Where he and I differ is his monologue view that black peoples disadvantage is "systemic", while barely even acknowledging the much larger problem of disadvantage among whites.

I'm no lover of Thatcher, but its simply partisan to refuse to see the things she got right. You go on about the north, but many of the industries up here were dying long before she came to power, hamstrung by a spiteful Union hold on an ever decreasingly profitable, unmodernised industrial base that could no longer compete with emerging economies they used to sell those goods to. Sure, lets not forget the old guard of industry supported by her party had help starve them of cash by profit taking in the first place, but it was not a case of "evil Thatcher" and the "good people" of the north being shafted. The unforgivable bit was that once those industries had been destroyed, there was little to no attempt to invest in these areas to replace them, thus baking decay into communities for generations. But an equally spiteful attitude of these communities towards any attempt to compromise or modernise helped accelerate the inevitable

Candace is just another neoliberal neocon like so many Republicans. Except she has some decent rhetoric and sells her image well.

Sorry dude. I know you fancy her. 

I don't accept that. Candace does not repeat liberal mantras and articles of faith about victimhood and "systemic oppression", thats why shes rubbished by the left. Like the video you posted, shes real enough to point out that the problems are not simply a case of disadvantage, and that people have to take a hand in their own futures too. What is actually WRONG about that view? What is actually wrong about saying, well no, we aren't just 'victims', we are strong capable people but we need a CHANCE"? You can argue all day about such areas in the US being "starved of cash", but if you are idealogically opposed to that cash being spent on the furtherance of "Gay hispanic awareness events" and "he to she programmes" and other celebrations of victimhood, instead of creating jobs, ambition and opportunity, then why should you approve of it? Why is she so bad because she doesn't share your views?

Fancy her? She's a very attractive woman, but she is also intelligent and articulate and she happens to express views that chime with me. She is also not "anti-male", which so many on the liberal left now are. Her views cross ethnicity boundaries with ease, and she could easily get solid support among centre ground white conservatives. And if she should take advantage of a kind of "bambi Blair" effect to help her career, then power to her. As I've said, US politics could do a lot worse than having someone like her in the White House.

EDIT: On reflection, what I'd also like to add Dynamics, is that whilst you and I may have differences of opinion, you respect the opinions of others even where you don't share them, and in return I respect that. Even if you are a wishy washy liberal, you aren't a bad one

[Borg Refinery]

I'm sure we can all provide links.

You seem to pay no heed to any evidence at all.

But I think you'll find it difficult to identify areas where the systematic inequality of opportunity for non-white workers has been tackled  more by socialism or trade unionism in everyday life than capitalism or Conservatism.

Is this a serious post?

Are you aware that what you term as 'trade unionism' and what you term as 'socialism' (not the Labour party so much but them too...to a smaller extent), as in the illegal non-official stuff is the only thing that gave us the things we take for granted today?

Every reform, every concession had to be fought for - has been fought for, with lobbying of every kind. In today's age, it's not miners striking like they did after WWI, facing imprisonment and possible death, it's everything. The only reason things changed, the only reason why the world today doesn't resemble the 19thC but with better technology, is because people paid the price for our and their freedom in blood.

It's not actually socialism or trade unionism by the way, it's a story as old as government itself. It's human nature, just refer back to our history with the peasants' revolts or the levellers in the civil war. It is not 'socialism' you take issue with, it's people demanding anything better. You believe in 'govt knows best', and are deferential. And you think they will magically choose to improve the lot of ethnic minorities? You truly believe Bojo is doing this? It's insane thinking.

Labour is lying when it portrays itself as the party for all the workers. And it's funding network among many of the trades unions knows it cannot tackle the KBW sentiments still widespread among its membership...

I agree Labour is hopelessly corrupted, but parties like the SNP have transformed Scotland beyond recognition where your hero Maggie devastated Scotland, just for example.

So we agree that the "MSM" is not simply a "puppet" of whoever our political opponents might be? 

The media are puppets to special interests who can control its agenda, that means - the owners' agenda, things like the DA Notice Committee and certain others who can influence their headlines.

I don't believe the amount of both US Police deaths or Police shootings is anywhere near comparable in the UK. I believe also that the main "victims" of Police shootings in the US are white, not black.

Well yeah there are more whites than blacks in the US. But it's still overrepresented among blacks. I already stated our system/officers are much better than theirs..

That looks like someones personal website. Not saying he's biased or anything...

Tbf, I spent most of the 1980s outside the UK, so his words are probably more relevent than mine in this regard

Well I know people who lived around there and heard about it too, some (indirectly) who survived it..

I don't disagree, what I'm saying is there has been a lot for them to "exacerbate", because any kind of moderate voice on immigration was ignored or lumped into the "racist" bracket. I believe your "Crony Capitalism" comment might best sum it up. I think mass immigration, given the green light by EU expansion under Blairs regime, was largely driven by industry, big business and a desire to keep wage costs down, not by any sense of duty to our fellow man.

I agree, but more 'crony capitalism' wrapped up as alt-rightism isn't the answer. Even under Trump, immigration actually got worse at some points..

No, but history shows they'd just kill anyone who didn't share their belief in some illusory collectivised society, even if that same history can't provide any actual working examples of one

I don't think that's generally proper Antifa's aim, they just want to stop bona fide Nazis. Dunno about this newfangled stuff.

I'd never noticed that before 

As for PP, his position actually sounds similar to Candace Owens...that socialism has rarely done anything for the disadvantaged in terms of raising their horizons and aspirations, preferring instead to keep them loyal by a combination of State aid and a Smurf-esque style of eat the rich political discourse.

She manages to put it across without the rampant snobbery though

Well he is from Stokey, I'm from around there originally. It is so snobby it makes pat look like Rab C Nes.

His position is that Thatcher is the best thing ever. She refuted her own legacy. I saw it. She said it was wrong. Sadly, I can't find the video anywhere online but I hope you'll take my word for it - I promise I'll try somehow to grab it and show you.

Candace is just another neoliberal neocon like so many Republicans. Except she has some decent rhetoric and sells her image well.

Sorry dude. I know you fancy her. 

I suppose she can be amusing when she trips up liberal media types.

Btw, things to bear in mind, this happens in the USA too -
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/04/government-has-cut-more-poor-labour-councils-rich-tory-ones-and-it-shows

They refused Federal aid to several Dem states. Btw New York is the biggest net contributor, Cali is another, they have tried to kick the crap out of them, and have starved Dem cities of funds.

That doesn't excuse the blatant corruption of their crackhead mayors such as in Washington DC, or corrupt Dem local govt etc  but it is a HUGE reason why they are so rundown. Do not forget; Cali despite being 'the socialist republic of California' has the biggest GDP in the union and is also a net contributor.

Similarly, London is largely Labour and is the supposed 'engine' of the country. Islington is solidly Labour etc.

And GOP voters are the biggest beneficiaries of SNAP, many poor towns up north that are solidly Tory are also very rundown etc.

Labour have failed everytime they've been in office (except for Attlee) - I agree - but the answer isn't the Tories, the answer is new parties, more fighting and lobbying against the neoliberal machine. Same is true in the USA.

And in the same way the North of England deserves better, and the elitist southerner/liberal London-centric economy is grossly unfair on you guys and you deserve so much better (bigly thanks to Thatcher - so bigly! the bigliest!); the same is true in the USA where their West-East Coast Elitist--centric country/economy must be changed to benefit the majority. Trump promised that bit failed to deliver, being an East Coast elitist from NYC himself(!).

Feck it, we just should make you and Toots joint PM of this country. Your sometimes-homicidal tendencies would be balanced out while the country gets a feckin' good shoeing.  In the US, they can probably stick my mad yank pal in charge, and every household gets a free tank and an F-22 Raptor.   

[DeppityDawg]

This is just a menagerie, a noah's ark of dogs, ducks and sheep all being noisy..and the dog biting the postman.. 

I'd never noticed that before 

As for PP, his position actually sounds similar to Candace Owens...that socialism has rarely done anything for the disadvantaged in terms of raising their horizons and aspirations, preferring instead to keep them loyal by a combination of State aid and a Smurf-esque style of eat the rich political discourse.

She manages to put it across without the rampant snobbery though

[DeppityDawg]

Biased liberalish media hates Trump and gives a misleading impression, only reports his supporters' animosity. What's new.

So we agree that the "MSM" is not simply a "puppet" of whoever our political opponents might be? 

Police died here, what about all the cops run over and stabbed? The cops face similar issues despite the guns there..

I don't believe the amount of both US Police deaths or Police shootings is anywhere near comparable in the UK. I believe also that the main "victims" of Police shootings in the US are white, not black.

Serious is relative, there were 'serious' events in the old days which make today look like nothing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pasttenseblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/today-in-londons-history-nazi-skins-attack-black-filmgoers-woolwich-1980/amp/

The irony is that Nazi guy Crane, came out as gay and died of AIDs later on..

That looks like someones personal website. Not saying he's biased or anything...

Tbf, I spent most of the 1980s outside the UK, so his words are probably more relevent than mine in this regard

The alt right just exacerbate the problem, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not so. You have certain countries interfering in European politics and stirring things up too?

I don't disagree, what I'm saying is there has been a lot for them to "exacerbate", because any kind of moderate voice on immigration was ignored or lumped into the "racist" bracket. I believe your "Crony Capitalism" comment might best sum it up. I think mass immigration, given the green light by EU expansion under Blairs regime, was largely driven by industry, big business and a desire to keep wage costs down, not by any sense of duty to our fellow man.

I don't agree that Antifa are as bad as the NF et al. I would say that they are thugs but they're not trying to kill minorities which I tend to prefer.

No, but history shows they'd just kill anyone who didn't share their belief in some illusory collectivised society, even if that same history can't provide any actual working examples of one

[patman post]

Again links can be given, but you won't believe me probably.

I'm sure we can all provide links. But I think you'll find it difficult to identify areas where the systematic inequality of opportunity for non-white workers has been tackled  more by socialism or trade unionism in everyday life than capitalism or Conservatism.

Labour is lying when it portrays itself as the party for all the workers. And it's funding network among many of the trades unions knows it cannot tackle the KBW sentiments still widespread among its membership...

[Borg Refinery]

I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that the voices being heard in the media are mostly those deemed acceptable to the liberal agenda - and where Antifa has been heavily involved, the reporting of violence, looting and assault have been muted to say the least. How many times did the BBC repeat the words "mostly peaceful" after it kicked off in Whitehall earlier in the year? How many "mostly peaceful" protests have you been to that ended up with dozens of police injured and one with a punctured lung? As for the US goes, you could have been forgiven for thinking that the only violence being dished out was from "white supremacist Trump supporters" when that was patently untrue. There are literally thousands of videos on Youtube from people witnessing events that in ordinary times would have been all over the media, but went strangely unreported in 2020

Biased liberalish media hates Trump and gives a misleading impression, only reports his supporters' animosity. What's new.

And again, I'm not denying that there are bad police. But the US is a vastly different country to the UK, with problems way more serious than ours in so many respects. For a start, UK Police can be fairly confident that the vast majority of people they encounter will not have a firearm, but in the US it is a completely different ball game. None of that is to excuse bad policing, but I can't help but think you'd feel differently if you'd seen the way some people react to authority, and then if you add into the mix the fact that many people can legally carry firearms (depending on the State I guess) then the potential for a bad day for someone is multiplied many times over.

Police died here, what about all the cops run over and stabbed? The cops face similar issues despite the guns there..

I'm not sure I'd agree with "100% corrupted"

Seems fairly reasonable given their misconduct.

They were? I don't know. I don't believe we've ever had a serious problem with the Far Right in the UK (or the far eft for that matter), at least until recently. I was unfortunately involved in football violence in my teens, a supposed hot bed of the "far right", but I never saw much evidence of it except among a few die hard nutters with the City Service

Serious is relative, there were 'serious' events in the old days which make today look like nothing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pasttenseblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/today-in-londons-history-nazi-skins-attack-black-filmgoers-woolwich-1980/amp/

The irony is that Nazi guy Crane, came out as gay and died of AIDs later on..

I think today its different. I think division in our society is growing fast, and our politicians seem unable to arrest it. There have been so many gifts to the far right in the handling of such things as Rotherham (just one of many towns), the immigration debate in general (for many years we weren't even allowed to talk about it) and the lack of transparency in things like hate crime figures. But the UK is not alone in this. Look at the events in France , Sweden and even Germany, where the decisions to open borders are now desperately being reversed?

Far right extremism is on the rise in pretty much all European countries, but no amount of calls for more debate or for caution was listened to, and each poor decision has compounded the next. We've NEVER had a proper debate about mass immigration in this country, it was simply decided for us. France now has deeply serious problems as a result of the same policies, and its hard to see how a Right wing Nationalist will not become the next French President. You could repeat this for several other countries too.

The alt right just exacerbate the problem, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not so. You have certain countries interfering in European politics and stirring things up too?

The last line is telling. Because that is the truth. If the problem is far right extremism, the answer for me is NOT another set of extremists. Radical communists and anarchists are every bit as bad as far right extremists, and 60 or not, I would still go out in the street and fight those c**ts than ever accept them in my town

I don't agree that Antifa are as bad as the NF et al. I would say that they are thugs but they're not trying to kill minorities which I tend to prefer.

What you need is a big collection of antique seaside saucy postcards to provide you with an alternative reality.

We have you for alternative reality, the lib dems will win the next election for sure.

What you need to do is feck off and take your prozac, Quack Quack. Seriously, scientists have calculated the risk from tapping your keyboard means you have an 0.0021% chance of getting carpal tunnel syndrome, and that's far too dangerous for you.

I think he needs his rabies shots personally, let alone the old git's diseases.

And I see someone is speaking on behalf of all sheep. This is just a menagerie, a noah's ark of dogs, ducks and sheep all being noisy..and the dog biting the postman.. 

[DeppityDawg]

What you need is a big collection of antique seaside saucy postcards to provide you with an alternative reality.

What you need to do is feck off and take your prozac, Quack Quack. Seriously, scientists have calculated the risk from tapping your keyboard means you have an 0.0021% chance of getting carpal tunnel syndrome, and that's far too dangerous for you.

[HDQQ]

Hmm. It a question I've asked myself a lot lately, but the answer never seemed clear until the other day. It started as a conversation with Mrs Dawg, who was sighing in frustration while reading about Harry Stiles wearing a frock in Vogue magazine. Now, Mrs Dawg is no wallflower, she can hold her drink and own against any bloke, but shes no "feminist" either. Ordinarily I guess she would have turned the page, but what had tipped her over the edge was the so called "backlash" to Candance Owens less than complimentary comments about wor Harry.

Bring back real men, or men who wear dresses aren't "manly", or words to that effect was what Candace had said. Cue a twitter storm from outraged liberals and pugged feminists, saying Candace was "50 years behind the times" and various memes and tropes about "fighting toxic masculinity". Oh dear. What was heartening was the "frontlash" of memes mocking both Harry Stiles and the Liberal thought police, since understandably, Mrs Dawg didn't think Harry looked all that good in a frock, and many other women commenting didn't think so either. But I guess thats by the by.

On reading the story myself, one comment struck me - "her statement [Candaces Owens] of course is utterly self evident, and wouldn't have provoked such a reaction as recently as 10 years ago". This is probably the truest thing said in the whole exchange

And I suddenly realised why I am now a "nazi". Because, as recently as 10 or 15 years ago, so called traditional values, such as a belief in family, law and order, gender norms, work ethic, meritocracy etc, were seen as "normal" middle ground values. But increasingly every year that passes, Liberalism moves further and further away from these values, so that the centre ground shifts further to the left. And consequently, this moves those who hold those once moderate centre ground beliefs further to the right - so that "Right wing" has become the new description for anyone who doesn't fawn all over the latest liberal cause celeb or trending "victim" narrative. And "Alt Right" is basically what would once have been called a "staunch conservative". This years its BLM - last year it was Transgender, and so on - next year it will be "wimmins" turn again no doubt. Intersectionality in operation - at least they are fair and take turns I suppose 

Anyway. This is why I'm now a fascist. I haven't really moved, its just that like a floor shifting underneath your feet, parts of society (with little to no discussion allowed) have moved, and they are really pissed at me that I refuse to go along with stuff that goes against my values. And of course, because those values are no longer "normal" - they are now the new fascism

What the end game is in this particular example of Liberal mores is not entirely clear. But Candace does have a point. We are feminising men, and masculinizing women. The huge over hyping of "transexuals" is probably a good indicator of what liberalism sees as the "ideal" society. Male and Female "gender", as they stand, are going to be the next dirty words in 20-30 years time. Androgeny will be the "new normal"

And our increasingly liberal society will have what it thinks passes for equality this way eventually. Only, we'll all look the same, and like good little liberals, we'll all say the same things, so as not to be "cancelled". I won't, because hopefully I'll be fecking dead by then.

Have a good day 

What you need is a big collection of antique seaside saucy postcards to provide you with an alternative reality.

[Borg Refinery]

I'm a fan of The Blessed Margaret's first two terms. I see nothing wrong with the cordial relationship with Reagan (and Gorbachev).

Ha ha, you mean the Gorby the CIA feckt over with their sponsored coup to remove him and install Yeltsin? Links can be provided...

That's the extent of their 'equality of opportunity' bollocks. Look at Russia under Yeltsin, look at the state of the north under Maggie. Look at the riots by the uppity 'efniks' in the innercity under her.. etc ...

Just saying. Then we get to Maggie's 'lost' interview in the purple dress on Larry King where she refuted her OWN legacy, and said she naively believed the rich would be more generous with trickle down and regretted it? It seems impossible to find now, but did the rounds back a few years ago.

I really wish I saved it for you. It is too poignant.

Or Macmillan's friendship with Kennedy.
Conservatism is about providing equality of opportunity to improve one's life, not engineering equality by suppressing initiative or paying out to stifle ambition and keep everyone on the same level or professing particular caring for black, Asian and minority ethnic voters.

Yeah right. Take this for example: https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/516861/

That's the extent of it. Then you got 'conservative' (neoliberal) philosophy of corporate welfare replacing the state itself.

That's not efficient or free marketeering- it's called crony capitalism. It's socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.

When push comes to shove, Socialism will push smaller factions under the bus to further its aims of ultimate control — look at the way antisemitism is rife in Labour and the Far Left is willing to lose Jewish members to get Corbyn back and Momentum beavering away...

Yeah but first off, anti-semitism is and always has been a bigger problem in the Tory party.

Again links can be given, but you won't believe me probably.

[patman post]

Isn't your hero Maggie Thatcher & Reagan?

I'm sure they really stood up for 'non-white voters' (as if their interests are exactly the same...(?)..)!

It's a case of the cure being worse than the illness.

I'm a fan of The Blessed Margaret's first two terms. I see nothing wrong with the cordial relationship with Reagan (and Gorbachev). Or Macmillan's friendship with Kennedy.
Conservatism is about providing equality of opportunity to improve one's life, not engineering equality by suppressing initiative or paying out to stifle ambition and keep everyone on the same level or professing particular caring for black, Asian and minority ethnic voters.
When push comes to shove, Socialism will push smaller factions under the bus to further its aims of ultimate control — look at the way antisemitism is rife in Labour and the Far Left is willing to lose Jewish members to get Corbyn back and Momentum beavering away...

[Sheepy]

But yes of course you get patronising types in a place like Portland speaking on behalf of others, that's what you expect.

LOL
Well it happens. They are alright really.

[DeppityDawg]

Look, I can see BLM are manipulated and sure, clearly white liberal idiots are latching on here, but just because their movement has been hijacked, the pain of black folks and so many others in the US is very raw and real...

I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that the voices being heard in the media are mostly those deemed acceptable to the liberal agenda - and where Antifa has been heavily involved, the reporting of violence, looting and assault have been muted to say the least. How many times did the BBC repeat the words "mostly peaceful" after it kicked off in Whitehall earlier in the year? How many "mostly peaceful" protests have you been to that ended up with dozens of police injured and one with a punctured lung? As for the US goes, you could have been forgiven for thinking that the only violence being dished out was from "white supremacist Trump supporters" when that was patently untrue. There are literally thousands of videos on Youtube from people witnessing events that in ordinary times would have been all over the media, but went strangely unreported in 2020

Whatever the stupid liberals enflaming the situation do, it doesn't change other facts. No one can tell me police brutality isn't real in the US after some of the horrific things that have occurred over there. I agree the majority of cops are alright, but the people in charge and the cop unions - btw most of all the cop unions seem 100% corrupted.

And again, I'm not denying that there are bad police. But the US is a vastly different country to the UK, with problems way more serious than ours in so many respects. For a start, UK Police can be fairly confident that the vast majority of people they encounter will not have a firearm, but in the US it is a completely different ball game. None of that is to excuse bad policing, but I can't help but think you'd feel differently if you'd seen the way some people react to authority, and then if you add into the mix the fact that many people can legally carry firearms (depending on the State I guess) then the potential for a bad day for someone is multiplied many times over.

I'm not sure I'd agree with "100% corrupted"

Maybe they have been hijacked by white liberals too I guess, but once upon a time they were fighting real nazi's on the streets in Berlin. Up until very very recently they were still fighting people like the british movement and national front, and the national socialist movement in the US.

I donnt condone their criminal actions, and they expect to have police come after them, but am I meant to condemn them for holding off the nazi gangs from marching through predominantly minority neighbourhoods?

They were? I don't know. I don't believe we've ever had a serious problem with the Far Right in the UK (or the far eft for that matter), at least until recently. I was unfortunately involved in football violence in my teens, a supposed hot bed of the "far right", but I never saw much evidence of it except among a few die hard nutters with the City Service

I think today its different. I think division in our society is growing fast, and our politicians seem unable to arrest it. There have been so many gifts to the far right in the handling of such things as Rotherham (just one of many towns), the immigration debate in general (for many years we weren't even allowed to talk about it) and the lack of transparency in things like hate crime figures. But the UK is not alone in this. Look at the events in France , Sweden and even Germany, where the decisions to open borders are now desperately being reversed?

Far right extremism is on the rise in pretty much all European countries, but no amount of calls for more debate or for caution was listened to, and each poor decision has compounded the next. We've NEVER had a proper debate about mass immigration in this country, it was simply decided for us. France now has deeply serious problems as a result of the same policies, and its hard to see how a Right wing Nationalist will not become the next French President. You could repeat this for several other countries too.

I don't think most of these modern types protestung Trump calling themselves 'Antifa' are Antifa from what I've read, they are Dem party activists bussed in. The Antifa I know of are radical communists and anzrchists who want the end of capitalism?

The last line is telling. Because that is the truth. If the problem is far right extremism, the answer for me is NOT another set of extremists. Radical communists and anarchists are every bit as bad as far right extremists, and 60 or not, I would still go out in the street and fight those c**ts than ever accept them in my town