Church of England to downsize

[T00ts]

At the risk of boring you I have seen much of many different denominations in my family,so much so I have little time for any but whatever floats people's boats but I won't embrace it.

Do your best to do what's right and treat others as you would wish to be treated is all you can do and I'm certainly no saint,but do you need buildings someone in a dog collar all the parephernalia to do that?

I do understand - the question for me is 'Is the Church true, is it perfect?' Sorry that's 2 questions. Every Church is run by imperfect people, so it is relatively easy to condemn religions. So for me it has to be true/perfect. I am repeating myself I know but we all need to ask the appropriate questions while actively searching for that truth. As said earlier God waits for our best efforts before miracles happen. Your choice to do as you describe is fine I am sure. He will wait.

[Barry]

Do your best to do what's right and treat others as you would wish to be treated is all you can do

With what objective?

and I'm certainly no saint,

but do you need buildings someone in a dog collar all the paraphernalia to do that?

You don't need any of that to be a true Christian.

[Barry]

That's not true. If we go back through the Bible there has always been a commandment of donations. In Moses time - the best 1st born animal etc. There has always been tithing (10%). There has always been a demand to give some of our wealth. Temples/churches/cathedrals have to be financed. Services to the poor and needy done in God's name needs finance. We are all, ie believers, responsible for that and it is a shared commitment. Do we really expect God to magic up money as require?. Where would faith come in that?

The work of the Church is to preach the Word of God.
The Church of England have gone off track and don't deserve the offerings unless they preach the Word.
They have become far too worldly.
The true Church is not under the tithe. In fact, the rich should be giving more than 10%, but I'm not really sure who they should be giving it to. Perhaps to the people preaching the whole Word of God.

As I posted earlier the wrong business model. We cannot love God and mammon and so many Churches seem entrenched in their need for robes, gold, pageantry etc etc. Revelations references them quite a lot. What if vicars etc had their own full time jobs and donated their time to the Church as an honour rather than a career?

The true church is not a business, it should be modelled on scripture. The organised mainstream churches are not .
The true church is growing in loose groups, meeting in houses and small places around the world.
Small villages and communities will miss their churches, mostly as a loss of a community centre.

I think the Archbishop earns in the region of £70k which isn't huge, but their head of investments earns much more:

Tom Joy, the commissioners' director of investments and their highest paid executive, received more than half a million pounds for the first time, increasing from £461,000 in 2016 to £515,000.

That's 4 years ago.
Mammon as you say!

[cromwell]

That's not true. If we go back through the Bible there has always been a commandment of donations. In Moses time - the best 1st born animal etc. There has always been tithing (10%). There has always been a demand to give some of our wealth. Temples/churches/cathedrals have to be financed. Services to the poor and needy done in God's name needs finance. We are all, ie believers, responsible for that and it is a shared commitment. Do we really expect God to magic up money as require?. Where would faith come in that?

That is not to say that miracles never happen but there is much evidence that God waits for us to do all we can before He intervenes.

As I posted earlier the wrong business model. We cannot love God and mammon and so many Churches seem entrenched in their need for robes, gold, pageantry etc etc. Revelations references them quite a lot. What if vicars etc had their own full time jobs and donated their time to the Church as an honour rather than a career?

At the risk of boring you I have seen much of many different denominations in my family,so much so I have little time for any but whatever floats people's boats but I won't embrace it.

Do your best to do what's right and treat others as you would wish to be treated is all you can do and I'm certainly no saint,but do you need buildings someone in a dog collar all the parephernalia to do that?

[T00ts]

God seems to have managed very well without money for a very long time, whereas the Church of England has always wanted a few quid since 1534. It will soon be 500 years since the evil Henry VIII did that!

That's not true. If we go back through the Bible there has always been a commandment of donations. In Moses time - the best 1st born animal etc. There has always been tithing (10%). There has always been a demand to give some of our wealth. Temples/churches/cathedrals have to be financed. Services to the poor and needy done in God's name needs finance. We are all, ie believers, responsible for that and it is a shared commitment. Do we really expect God to magic up money as require?. Where would faith come in that?

That is not to say that miracles never happen but there is much evidence that God waits for us to do all we can before He intervenes.

When I was a kid T00ts I was press ganged in to attending the local CofE church and well attended it was too by the locals on a large council estate.

Many years later I was unfortunate enough at a posh do to come across the then vicar of that church who had by that time risen to high office in the church.

He was regaling a few people with tales of his early life as a vicar including one church on a large council estate and how meagre the collections were along with the IQ of the parishioners ( he made much more of it that's just a synopsis)yeah a pretty much poor post war community who I guess gave what they could.

So yes scroungers IMO given their assets and him no great Christian.

As I posted earlier the wrong business model. We cannot love God and mammon and so many Churches seem entrenched in their need for robes, gold, pageantry etc etc. Revelations references them quite a lot. What if vicars etc had their own full time jobs and donated their time to the Church as an honour rather than a career?

[cromwell]

What do you mean by 'scrounges'?

When I was a kid T00ts I was press ganged in to attending the local CofE church and well attended it was too by the locals on a large council estate.

Many years later I was unfortunate enough at a posh do to come across the then vicar of that church who had by that time risen to high office in the church.

He was regaling a few people with tales of his early life as a vicar including one church on a large council estate and how meagre the collections were along with the IQ of the parishioners ( he made much more of it that's just a synopsis)yeah a pretty much poor post war community who I guess gave what they could.

So yes scroungers IMO given their assets and him no great Christian.

[Barry]

God's work cannot be managed without funds although I believe the CofE is very wealthy in it's own right. Perhaps their business model is wrong.

God seems to have managed very well without money for a very long time, whereas the Church of England has always wanted a few quid since 1534. It will soon be 500 years since the evil Henry VIII did that!

[T00ts]

Yeah well it is a business,owns around 100000 acres of land in the UK worth over £2 billion yet pleads poverty......has assets in total over £6 billion and scrounges off its followers

What do you mean by 'scrounges'?

[cromwell]

God's work cannot be managed without funds although I believe the CofE is very wealthy in it's own right. Perhaps their business model is wrong.

Yeah well it is a business,owns around 100000 acres of land in the UK worth over £2 billion yet pleads poverty......has assets in total over £6 billion and scrounges off its followers

[Borchester]

"Yesterday Mr Welby, wearing two masks, led a socially-distanced service at Canterbury Cathedral. The archbishop had urged the elderly to be 'sensible' and not to feel there was a 'compulsion' to attend this year."

And that was probably why Welby the Wimp was preaching to a congregation of 90 in a church that would hold 2000

[T00ts]

A business going in to recession,income down.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9088245/Shutdown-churches-ban-weddings-Covid-crisis-cost-CofE-150MILLION.html

God's work cannot be managed without funds although I believe the CofE is very wealthy in it's own right. Perhaps their business model is wrong.

[cromwell]

A business going in to recession,income down.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9088245/Shutdown-churches-ban-weddings-Covid-crisis-cost-CofE-150MILLION.html