Parts of NHS Face Collapse in 3wks/Ambulances: 9hr waits to hand over patients

[Thomas]

I would have thought you had realised by now all legitimate and public domain criticism of the Tory government is banned on this forum.

stop telling lies pappy.

Where does it say this in the forum rules please?

[Good old]

I would have thought you had realised by now all legitimate and public domain criticism of the Tory government is banned on this forum.

It's not unreasonable  for you to think that Smurf.  I do wonder what the yard stick is for Labour bad, as against Tory good.  I know both   parties  need criticism . Certain people definitely don't.

[papasmurf]

Another prime example of Labour bad.  Nothing to suggest that the Tories are not bad.  Well what's new.?

I would have thought you had realised by now all legitimate and public domain criticism of the Tory government is banned on this forum.

[Good old]

Nope i havent said any of this.

As you lose the argument , you use the tired old tactic of trying to misrepresent what i am saying.

LABOURS DUPLICITY

The point about the labour party using PFI is the fact labour are supposed to support labour party ideology and left wing/centre left values.

Those values once upon a time were nationalisation. Payment of nationalised industry and organisations like the nhs through general taxation etc.

So in 1997 onwards , you duped 12 million plus people across the uk  , who were largely supportive of and sympathetic to those left wing ideas , into voting for a party that was to go on and introduce non labour party policies like PFI among others , and you today still dont understand why people dont like you or trust your party.

Your answer to me? Tories do it too! tory bad!

The tories are supposed to like and implement policies like PFI.

As i understand general conservative ideology , shrinking the state , privatisation and lowering the burden of the general taxpayer is all part of long term conservative ideology.

So bleating the tories do it too isnt any sort of an argument or answer is it? The tories arent duping conservative voters regarding PFI into voting for a party that implements labour ideology are they?

Labour on the other hand duped labour voters into voting for a party that implements tory ideology.

second point.

LABOURS ECONOMIC MISMANAGEMENT

Labour are well known throughout the uk as being economically illiterate , and how every time they aein power badly handle the economy.

PFI is a classice example of that , and my earlier examples of how for example when the snp got into governemtn and had to deal with labours disgracefull inept PFI legacy , the snp managed to halve the cost of some of these contracts labour had signed the scottish taxpayer (and uk) up to.

Labour can't be trusted on the economy.

third point.

TORY BAD.

As we have seen from you in this thread , and other labour supporters elsehwere over the years , screaming tory bad no longer cuts it with the voters.

From 1997 , with the exception of the corbyn years , blairites like starmer and his predecessors blair, brown,  milliband , can be best summed up policy wise in most areas as being a fag paper to the left of the tories.

So when you all but become the tories in name , poorly imitating them , pissing off 12 million voters largely sympathetic to centre left ideals to outbribe a million or so middle england tory marginals , is it any wonder you no longer attain the tory bad vote in elections?

I mean this is nothing new good old.

Blair lost 3 million left wing votes in his first terms alone , with media headlines about blair saying the public being cheated , and lost another million in his next term.

So labour party red tories like you screaming tory bad doesnt cut the mustard anymore , and really highlights the utter fallacy of new labour .

Thats before you even mention the elephant in the room such as euroscepticism in england , and scottish indy in scotland , both isues which are lead weight around labours neck.

Another prime example of Labour bad.  Nothing to suggest that the Tories are not bad.  Well what's new.?

[Thomas]

Yeh that's fair cop, sorry too for the aggressive tone earlier on. I just feel that you have done research and can better show us what you're talking about by showing us more detail on whzt you mean, that's all. But I appreciate you prolly have better things to do anyway, but arguing with the resident motherwell BNP supporter who rallies against 'shithole countries' (or "the armpits of the third world" as he puts it) prolly isn't one of them, don't worry rangers will be on soon.. 

Why do people take an instant dislike in Rangers fans?

It saves time.

poor old dyno.

Trying to put people into little niches because he doesnt understand scotland , or people in general.

The poor! the poor! bnper! racist evil!



I have no idea what the reference to motherwell is about. Is this random pick a scottish town day or something?

Rangers fan?

No im not a rangers fan dynamis. Mayber cromwell or someone can help you with what team i support , but i fail to see any relevance with fitba to my arguments about you on the brit left.

11 years at uk level , and 14 at holyrood , and still the british left dont quite get the general popualtion and why people despise them.

Dynamis solution? Sqweam wacist at people and call them names to get them to vote for labour!



Honestly dynamis , i fink borkie is right about you , and you are nothing more than some spotty arsed teenager just out of school .

[Thomas]

First you tell us how widely Labour used PFI. Then you tell us Labour ,are not supposed to like PFI.   That's a distinct contradiction. Which rather puts you on the spot.

Nope i havent said any of this.

As you lose the argument , you use the tired old tactic of trying to misrepresent what i am saying.

LABOURS DUPLICITY

The point about the labour party using PFI is the fact labour are supposed to support labour party ideology and left wing/centre left values.

Those values once upon a time were nationalisation. Payment of nationalised industry and organisations like the nhs through general taxation etc.

So in 1997 onwards , you duped 12 million plus people across the uk  , who were largely supportive of and sympathetic to those left wing ideas , into voting for a party that was to go on and introduce non labour party policies like PFI among others , and you today still dont understand why people dont like you or trust your party.

Your answer to me? Tories do it too! tory bad!

The tories are supposed to like and implement policies like PFI.

As i understand general conservative ideology , shrinking the state , privatisation and lowering the burden of the general taxpayer is all part of long term conservative ideology.

So bleating the tories do it too isnt any sort of an argument or answer is it? The tories arent duping conservative voters regarding PFI into voting for a party that implements labour ideology are they?

Labour on the other hand duped labour voters into voting for a party that implements tory ideology.

second point.

LABOURS ECONOMIC MISMANAGEMENT

Labour are well known throughout the uk as being economically illiterate , and how every time they aein power badly handle the economy.

PFI is a classice example of that , and my earlier examples of how for example when the snp got into governemtn and had to deal with labours disgracefull inept PFI legacy , the snp managed to halve the cost of some of these contracts labour had signed the scottish taxpayer (and uk) up to.

Labour can't be trusted on the economy.

third point.

TORY BAD.

As we have seen from you in this thread , and other labour supporters elsehwere over the years , screaming tory bad no longer cuts it with the voters.

From 1997 , with the exception of the corbyn years , blairites like starmer and his predecessors blair, brown,  milliband , can be best summed up policy wise in most areas as being a fag paper to the left of the tories.

So when you all but become the tories in name , poorly imitating them , pissing off 12 million voters largely sympathetic to centre left ideals to outbribe a million or so middle england tory marginals , is it any wonder you no longer attain the tory bad vote in elections?

I mean this is nothing new good old.

Blair lost 3 million left wing votes in his first terms alone , with media headlines about blair saying the public being cheated , and lost another million in his next term.

So labour party red tories like you screaming tory bad doesnt cut the mustard anymore , and really highlights the utter fallacy of new labour .

Thats before you even mention the elephant in the room such as euroscepticism in england , and scottish indy in scotland , both isues which are lead weight around labours neck.

[Sheepy]

First of all Dyno, I apologise , for allowing this thread to deviate so far from your OP.
I only say unless it can be said , proved even , that the NHS would have received the finance needed to restructure it in the massive way ,was needed and happened then it is no good cursing PFI as if it was the only reason to think the NHS now struggles to keep up with the requirements of modern medicine and society. I have clearly said . Some PFI, agreements have proved expensive . So what is there to prove. All I point out is ,it is easy to pick out a mistake in procedure , if you are not then prepared to state how we would have proceeded to the same end.
You or anybody else , do not have to take my word for anything. As you well know there is always a mass of opinion further to most things, mostly further opinion as against some fact, to be found on Google and a number of easy to access outlets.
It's obvious PFI could have been done better, it's obvious if it was,  that would have been better all round. But how would the results of its use been achieved , or attempted without its use..?
If you are trying to highlight that  I'm not totally familiar with the full use of this medium, fine. But I would have thought most here do not need leading by the hand. In particular not being lead to opinion dressed as fact.

It is just a soapbox, it don't mean any of it is true or believable. Most of it is spiteful just like human nature.

[Borg Refinery]

First of all Dyno, I apologise , for allowing this thread to deviate so far from your OP.
I only say unless it can be said , proved even , that the NHS would have received the finance needed to restructure it in the massive way ,was needed and happened then it is no good cursing PFI as if it was the only reason to think the NHS now struggles to keep up with the requirements of modern medicine and society. I have clearly said . Some PFI, agreements have proved expensive . So what is there to prove. All I point out is ,it is easy to pick out a mistake in procedure , if you are not then prepared to state how we would have proceeded to the same end.
You or anybody else , do not have to take my word for anything. As you well know there is always a mass of opinion further to most things, mostly further opinion as against some fact, to be found on Google and a number of easy to access outlets.
It's obvious PFI could have been done better, it's obvious if it was,  that would have been better all round. But how would the results of its use been achieved , or attempted without its use..?
If you are trying to highlight that  I'm not totally familiar with the full use of this medium, fine. But I would have thought most here do not need leading by the hand. In particular not being lead to opinion dressed as fact.

Yeh that's fair cop, sorry too for the aggressive tone earlier on. I just feel that you have done research and can better show us what you're talking about by showing us more detail on whzt you mean, that's all. But I appreciate you prolly have better things to do anyway, but arguing with the resident motherwell BNP supporter who rallies against 'shithole countries' (or "the armpits of the third world" as he puts it) prolly isn't one of them, don't worry rangers will be on soon.. 

Why do people take an instant dislike in Rangers fans?

It saves time.

[Good old]

You do need to backup your arguments a bit better as you do tend to ask us to take your word only.

What evidence for example do you have that things were better with pfi vs if we never had it? All the studies I saw contradict what you said?

I can find them but I wanted to see the extent of your argument first, but you resorted to pure vitriol instead which isn't worth my time these days.

Just saying. I only picked out your post to respond to as you try to formulate proper replies on here, unlike most.

First of all Dyno, I apologise , for allowing this thread to deviate so far from your OP.
I only say unless it can be said , proved even , that the NHS would have received the finance needed to restructure it in the massive way ,was needed and happened then it is no good cursing PFI as if it was the only reason to think the NHS now struggles to keep up with the requirements of modern medicine and society. I have clearly said . Some PFI, agreements have proved expensive . So what is there to prove. All I point out is ,it is easy to pick out a mistake in procedure , if you are not then prepared to state how we would have proceeded to the same end.
You or anybody else , do not have to take my word for anything. As you well know there is always a mass of opinion further to most things, mostly further opinion as against some fact, to be found on Google and a number of easy to access outlets.
It's obvious PFI could have been done better, it's obvious if it was,  that would have been better all round. But how would the results of its use been achieved , or attempted without its use..?
If you are trying to highlight that  I'm not totally familiar with the full use of this medium, fine. But I would have thought most here do not need leading by the hand. In particular not being lead to opinion dressed as fact.

[Borg Refinery]

I have no connection at all with Hertfordshire, you need ask someone who has.

I know you don't, but I was wondering as Priti comes from there..

No wait, WItham is a hop into Essex isnae...oh well. I think true blue motherwell BNP supporters are probably the worst where it comes to that.

[papasmurf]

Do Hertfordshire Tories?

I have no connection at all with Hertfordshire, you need ask someone who has.

[Borg Refinery]

When it comes to MPs of all parties, very few of the current crop knows what a days work is.

Do Hertfordshire Tories?

[papasmurf]

Take a look at the working background of so many Tories, in comparison to the working background of most Labour, people.

When it comes to MPs of all parties, very few of the current crop knows what a days work is.

[Borg Refinery]

First you tell us how widely Labour used PFI. Then you tell us Labour ,are not supposed to like PFI.   That's a distinct contradiction. Which rather puts you on the spot.
You merely reiterated the fact that some PFI agreements cost to much money. Have I denied that? No.
What you never address is to tell us how or even if ,the Tories would have produced a health service that was until it fell back into their hands. Considered in wider world terms , as the best. One can only believe it would have rotted. So that they and you could say it was better in private hands.
Come off it Thomas.Take a look at the working background of so many Tories, in comparison to the working background of most Labour, people. Take a look at where the donations come from. Take a look at family connections.
All you ever demonstrate is a total blindness to anything other than your own agenda.

You do need to backup your arguments a bit better as you do tend to ask us to take your word only.

What evidence for example do you have that things were better with pfi vs if we never had it? All the studies I saw contradict what you said?

I can find them but I wanted to see the extent of your argument first, but you resorted to pure vitriol instead which isn't worth my time these days.

Just saying. I only picked out your post to respond to as you try to formulate proper replies on here, unlike most.

[Good old]

Where have you put me on the spot good old?

I have addressed everysingle thing you put to me about your labour heroes.

I have shown their incompetence over pfi , compared to the snp , i have shown their duplicity over tuition fees , while the snp removed them from scotland and so on.

Like very other labour supporter i come across , you have nothing to offer except screamin tory bad .

Tory bad is so easy to address its laughable.

Whats worrying though is 11 years out of power ,and you still dont get it  , or why people see through labour.

Banker orientated tory government?

Blair and brown were told to regulate the banking industry , and they refused to do so to the cheers of the tories at westminer , and now you offer some illusive reference to the banking industry being tory?

Stope it good old , im in fecking stitches here listening to this cac.

First you tell us how widely Labour used PFI. Then you tell us Labour ,are not supposed to like PFI.   That's a distinct contradiction. Which rather puts you on the spot.
You merely reiterated the fact that some PFI agreements cost to much money. Have I denied that? No.
What you never address is to tell us how or even if ,the Tories would have produced a health service that was until it fell back into their hands. Considered in wider world terms , as the best. One can only believe it would have rotted. So that they and you could say it was better in private hands.
Come off it Thomas.Take a look at the working background of so many Tories, in comparison to the working background of most Labour, people. Take a look at where the donations come from. Take a look at family connections.
All you ever demonstrate is a total blindness to anything other than your own agenda.