Well who do you believe?

[Sampanviking]

Never doubted what that duplicitious duo Bliar and Bush did nor the misery they caused,however I and you are free to say this here there wherever,can you say the same of Russia,probably not if you don't wish to be arrested or poisoned if you're more prominent.
Are you really telling me China is a free society?

Tell you what amazes me,the people who compare the two systems and come up with the idea the west are the more villainous.

Having seen both as close quarters.......
The word Free is rather abstract, why don't you ask about some specifics?

[Sheepy]

What bloody yanks? I never said anything was excellent just what's acceptable.....don't think I can't see it's not perfect.

Well why ask then, maybe I no longer have a passport or a choice, but maybe I could have it back if I stabbed people in the back over Brexit, but then, as I don't have it, I must have declined.

[cromwell]

You sound like those Americans before the election, these are your choices, they might be complete rubbish, but those are the choices, yeah but what about freedom, well no there won't be any of that nonsense.

What bloody yanks? I never said anything was excellent just what's acceptable.....don't think I can't see it's not perfect.

[Sheepy]

Well be brave Sheeps where would you rather be living here,Russia or China?

Well be brave Sheeps where would you rather be living here,Russia or China?

You sound like those Americans before the election, these are your choices, they might be complete rubbish, but those are the choices, yeah but what about freedom, well no there won't be any of that nonsense.

[cromwell]

None of them particularly, both sides are only interested in who controls who.
Under the usual guise it is all for the greater good, well show me what good has come from any of it.

Well be brave Sheeps where would you rather be living here,Russia or China?

[johnofgwent]

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-56126016
Has the west always done what is right?.....certainly not
Is the BBC seen as it once was around the world as the voice to be believed?
No those days have gone.
But to compare those to the actions of both Assad and his Russian backers to me at least seems perverse.

There is a crisis of confidence in the west,its political institutions and those that lead it who are often judged both corrupt and weak.

The alternatives may look appealing for some,a firm rule of law and order.......no cries of "Alluha Akbar" in their streets as crazed gunmen,bombers, blade wielders or those using vehicles to kill their targets.

Disinformation and the black arts of propaganda are as old as the hills after all Mussolini made the trains run on time so too did Hitler......all the way to the gas chambers and they had their sympathisers in the democratic world.

Today Is little different but to swap what we have warts and all for the allure of Putin,Beijing and others......no thanks.

Frankly, I donlt care who did what.

A dodgy bloke with dodgy job living in even dodgier island in the middle of what passes for the wild west of the 21st century, mixing with dodgy acquaintances worrking in even dodgier backwater, this was never going to end well was it ... Who was he spying for ?

[cromwell]

Yes I would say that as it is a rather basic statement of fact.
You did not address at all, you made a cursory nod in its direction and then skated over it without looking back
We have started a new cold war against them and yes we would bomb them back into the Stone Age if we thought we could get away with it. Do they respond? yes of course they do, what choice do they have? Would they have done it anyway if we had not started it ourselves? Obviously we have no way of knowing and now we never will. We are where we are and we started it.
Assad was fighting a proxy war on his on territory against Islamic terrorist forces largely exported by Nato countries into his (including incidentally some 20,000 /Uighur terrorists) We forced the war we effectively ensured it was bombed back into the Stone Age, the bits in the East that he didn't bomb, like Raqqa, we bombed to the ground for him.
You and the media never cease to amaze me! You say time after time how you realise afterwards, that they lied to you on every major Geopolitical event, WMD Brexit etc, but every time they come along with a new one, you swallow it hook line and sinker.
Now if want Genocide in the mix as well, our War on Terror has cost some 800,000 lives throughout the middle east over the last twenty years and nearly half of those have been civilian deaths. That is a real genocide.

Never doubted what that duplicitious duo Bliar and Bush did nor the misery they caused,however I and you are free to say this here there wherever,can you say the same of Russia,probably not if you don't wish to be arrested or poisoned if you're more prominent.
Are you really telling me China is a free society?

Tell you what amazes me,the people who compare the two systems and come up with the idea the west are the more villainous.

[Sampanviking]

Well you would say that wouldn't you.
I addressed the fact the west is by no means perfect,you think China spend and Russia spend no little time money and effort in undermining and attacking things like infrastructure.
Who plans bombing China or Russia back in to the stone age,however that's what Assad aided by Russia attempted to the opposition.
Well talking of unpalatable truths,do we poison people who are political opponents?

Yes I would say that as it is a rather basic statement of fact.
You did not address at all, you made a cursory nod in its direction and then skated over it without looking back
We have started a new cold war against them and yes we would bomb them back into the Stone Age if we thought we could get away with it. Do they respond? yes of course they do, what choice do they have? Would they have done it anyway if we had not started it ourselves? Obviously we have no way of knowing and now we never will. We are where we are and we started it.
Assad was fighting a proxy war on his on territory against Islamic terrorist forces largely exported by Nato countries into his (including incidentally some 20,000 /Uighur terrorists) We forced the war we effectively ensured it was bombed back into the Stone Age, the bits in the East that he didn't bomb, like Raqqa, we bombed to the ground for him.
You and the media never cease to amaze me! You say time after time how you realise afterwards, that they lied to you on every major Geopolitical event, WMD Brexit etc, but every time they come along with a new one, you swallow it hook line and sinker.
Now if want Genocide in the mix as well, our War on Terror has cost some 800,000 lives throughout the middle east over the last twenty years and nearly half of those have been civilian deaths. That is a real genocide.

[cromwell]

All of which is to largely miss the point and has very little to do with the article you quote.

Well you would say that wouldn't you.

The underlying matter is surely for the West to get its own house in order before spending time, money and energy throwing largely bogus accusations at those that are showing a far more competent level of governance that we in the West are.

I addressed the fact the west is by no means perfect,you think China spend and Russia spend no little time money and effort in undermining and attacking things like infrastructure.

Lets start with a simple realisation that nobody holds a monopoly on virtue, or that simply because other people in other countries do things differently to us, that it presents an existential crisis that can only be resolved by either their total capitulation or being bombed back into the stone age.

Who plans bombing China or Russia back in to the stone age,however that's what Assad aided by Russia attempted to the opposition.

The arrogance of the Wests foriegn policy seems only matched by the incompetence of its domestic governance and increasingly lunatic ideology.
The big question for the West to ask itself, is whether the problems we have are simply the product of Institionalised Ideological Incompetence or simply part of a greater divide, distract and rule policy to mask some very unpalatable truths about the reality of those that rule us.

Well talking of unpalatable truths,do we poison people who are political opponents?

[Sampanviking]

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-56126016
Has the west always done what is right?.....certainly not
Is the BBC seen as it once was around the world as the voice to be believed?
No those days have gone.
But to compare those to the actions of both Assad and his Russian backers to me at least seems perverse.

There is a crisis of confidence in the west,its political institutions and those that lead it who are often judged both corrupt and weak.

The alternatives may look appealing for some,a firm rule of law and order.......no cries of "Alluha Akbar" in their streets as crazed gunmen,bombers, blade wielders or those using vehicles to kill their targets.

Disinformation and the black arts of propaganda are as old as the hills after all Mussolini made the trains run on time so too did Hitler......all the way to the gas chambers and they had their sympathisers in the democratic world.

Today Is little different but to swap what we have warts and all for the allure of Putin,Beijing and others......no thanks.

All of which is to largely miss the point and has very little to do with the article you quote.
The underlying matter is surely for the West to get its own house in order before spending time, money and energy throwing largely bogus accusations at those that are showing a far more competent level of governance that we in the West are.
Lets start with a simple realisation that nobody holds a monopoly on virtue, or that simply because other people in other countries do things differently to us, that it presents an existential crisis that can only be resolved by either their total capitulation or being bombed back into the stone age.

The arrogance of the Wests foriegn policy seems only matched by the incompetence of its domestic governance and increasingly lunatic ideology.
The big question for the West to ask itself, is whether the problems we have are simply the product of Institionalised Ideological Incompetence or simply part of a greater divide, distract and rule policy to mask some very unpalatable truths about the reality of those that rule us.

Mod edit to fix quotes only

[Sheepy]

None of them particularly, both sides are only interested in who controls who.
Under the usual guise it is all for the greater good, well show me what good has come from any of it.

[cromwell]

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-56126016
Has the west always done what is right?.....certainly not
Is the BBC seen as it once was around the world as the voice to be believed?
No those days have gone.
But to compare those to the actions of both Assad and his Russian backers to me at least seems perverse.

There is a crisis of confidence in the west,its political institutions and those that lead it who are often judged both corrupt and weak.

The alternatives may look appealing for some,a firm rule of law and order.......no cries of "Alluha Akbar" in their streets as crazed gunmen,bombers, blade wielders or those using vehicles to kill their targets.

Disinformation and the black arts of propaganda are as old as the hills after all Mussolini made the trains run on time so too did Hitler......all the way to the gas chambers and they had their sympathisers in the democratic world.

Today Is little different but to swap what we have warts and all for the allure of Putin,Beijing and others......no thanks.