Defund the police...

[Streetwalker]

The problem is what happens when the systems to vote the law makers out fail in the eyes of those who don't like the laws as they are.


Stourmont is an excellent example of how killing people in a political cause works if you keep at it long enough

All the rules go out the window when religious bigots are involved  Jog .

[johnofgwent]

Yes we employ them to work for us , all of us .  If the majority don't agree with how they are doing that then we vote them out and until that happens the minority have to abide by the laws that the majority support .
I'm sure we all have in our minds laws that we don't agree with , that we think are unnecessary but  accept for the greater good .I'm also sure most of us would support the  arrest of people who use fake money or drive without insurance .

We can not as individuals choose which ones we accept and which ones we ignore , that is the road to anarchy .

The problem is what happens when the systems to vote the law makers out fail in the eyes of those who don't like the laws as they are.


Stourmont is an excellent example of how killing people in a political cause works if you keep at it long enough

[Streetwalker]

Until March/April 2020 I would generally have agreed.
But I'm less of an authoritarian than you. (I think).
However the law can change, and it has done, so far that it has caused people to have to consider whether that law is ethical, logical or even breaks existing laws.
It's then that the Police come across a line where the people start to question the bad laws. This is not a left/right thing, but a real challenge to the verity of laws, especially when the government themselves have been flouting them.

It's a bit like that saying, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", when the fact is, we are entitled to our privacy. The State are not here to spy on us. The State are not here to control our movements and contacts, they are here as our servants, we employ them to work for us.

Yes we employ them to work for us , all of us .  If the majority don't agree with how they are doing that then we vote them out and until that happens the minority have to abide by the laws that the majority support .
I'm sure we all have in our minds laws that we don't agree with , that we think are unnecessary but  accept for the greater good .I'm also sure most of us would support the  arrest of people who use fake money or drive without insurance .

We can not as individuals choose which ones we accept and which ones we ignore , that is the road to anarchy .

[Barry]

I would just add  that nobody who breaks the law or acts like a Tw**  has anything to be concerned about

Until March/April 2020 I would generally have agreed.
But I'm less of an authoritarian than you. (I think).
However the law can change, and it has done, so far that it has caused people to have to consider whether that law is ethical, logical or even breaks existing laws.
It's then that the Police come across a line where the people start to question the bad laws. This is not a left/right thing, but a real challenge to the verity of laws, especially when the government themselves have been flouting them.

It's a bit like that saying, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", when the fact is, we are entitled to our privacy. The State are not here to spy on us. The State are not here to control our movements and contacts, they are here as our servants, we employ them to work for us.

[cromwell]

I would just add  that nobody who breaks the law or acts like a Tw**  has anything to be concerned about

Well not strictly true and like I say it's not perfect,but I know what DD doesn't like but not sure what he'd like to see in its place.

HT and I thought Chelsea had the edge

[Streetwalker]

Yes our society has its faults,still better than state sponsored violence on its citizens.

I would just add  that nobody who breaks the law or acts like a T@@@  has anything to be concerned about

[cromwell]

There were at least 2 question marks, but hey, whatever you say.

Well that's OK,you were referring to the west in general (without saying so) and I Myanmar (ditto)

[DeppityDawg]

And there you go thinking for me,I was actually thinking of Myanmar.

There were at least 2 question marks, but hey, whatever you say.

[cromwell]

Well, you've moved from saying it was a "training" issue to it now being "state sponsored violence". Which would suggest you believe the (US?) Government is actively encouraging or enabling its Police forces to kill (certain?) people.

I was actually referring to Western (liberal) society, rather than the UK or the US. In fact, if the above were true, then the UK is as guilty as the US.

In any event, I think you've been reading too much into Black Lives Matter type narratives, but thats just another example of how far apart our views are.

And there you go thinking for me,I was actually thinking of Myanmar.

[DeppityDawg]

Yes our society has its faults,still better than state sponsored violence on its citizens.

Well, you've moved from saying it was a "training" issue to it now being "state sponsored violence". Which would suggest you believe the (US?) Government is actively encouraging or enabling its Police forces to kill (certain?) people.

I was actually referring to Western (liberal) society, rather than the UK or the US. In fact, if the above were true, then the UK is as guilty as the US.

In any event, I think you've been reading too much into Black Lives Matter type narratives, but thats just another example of how far apart our views are.

[cromwell]

Yes, our liberal society isn't working

Yes our society has its faults,still better than state sponsored violence on its citizens.

[johnofgwent]

Don't tell Cromwell that for feck sake, he'll want everyone trained to be able to disarm an axe weilding nutter without ruffling his hair 

Easy. Shoot them with a longbow. Silent, and if you get it right, the arm drops right off after gangrene sets in.

[DeppityDawg]

It's not working

Yes, our liberal society isn't working

[cromwell]

Don't tell Cromwell that for feck sake, he'll want everyone trained to be able to disarm an axe weilding nutter without ruffling his hair 

It's not working

[DeppityDawg]

Is there any other type ?   

Being half serious though  and with the lack of  plod in these parts or at least the lack of plod on the beat its quite obvious that our own day to day safety and security is down to us .

Don't tell Cromwell that for feck sake, he'll want everyone trained to be able to disarm an axe weilding nutter without ruffling his hair