Brexit Bonus

[patman post]

How much extra paperwork and taxation is required?

And what are these bike bits the Cloggies are unable to supply. It is only a bike for Christ's sake, not a space rocket.

All sounds a bit iffy.

We're long past the penny-farthing and the Rudge-Whitworth sit-up-and-beg bicycles. These days, some specialist models can cost thousands of pounds.   


But none of that matters in the context of this thread. The point is that some EU-based companies are ceasing to trade with the UK, and some UK companies are finding it difficult to trade under the new EU rules with the EU and Northern Ireland. Even though you may think the difficulties are imagined, they are still stopping some firms trading with some customers. And it's individual customer who are hit...


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/02/seafood-exporters-facing-70-pages-paperwork-single-lorry-load/amp/


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexit-red-tape-makes-it-easier-for-eu-nations-to-import-lamb-from-new-zealand-than-from-wales/ar-BB1dt7IQ

[BeElBeeBub]

So, what is stopping you using it as an opportunity of becoming a supplier yourself? Turning out £5 parts until your heart is content?

What's stopping you?

Why aren't you using the opportunities you forced us?

The practical answer is, I don't want to be an importer or supplier of widgets. I just want to be able to buy my widgets cheaply and simply so I can get on and do the thing I want to do.

Why doesn't you builder set up a saw mill and mill his own lumber or set up a brickworks and make his own bricks and tiles instead of ordering from a builders merchant?

[papasmurf]

The info on CE marks:-
Far more at link:-
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-marking

Not all products must bear the CE marking. Only those product categories subject to specific directives that provide for the CE marking are required to be CE marked.

[Barry]

I'm so sorry that you are having a problem sourcing parts from your project. It must be very frustrating for you.
Almost as frustrating as being led into an entity by John Major without having any say and being forced to bow to Brussels for 23 years, when we were given a say.
And said NO.

[Sheepy]

it's bugger all to do with not accepting brexit. You guys always bang on about democracy.

First it was the reason why we could ask again.

Then it was the reason why we couldn't delay it during a pandemic

Now it's happened it's the reason we can't question any of the effects.

We were told cheaper stuff, less red tape, easier trade, no loss of our right to live and work in EU, more control.

Stuff has got more expensive (and yes some of that rise has been covid/shipping related), paper work has gone up, our ability to live and work around Europe reduced (I'm not talking about trade restrictions) and we seek to have even less control than before. We can't even control our own internal borders anymore.

Here's an exercise.

Take all of vote leaves promises, Gove, Cummings, johnson's etc promises and then see which ones have actually come true.

What things that VL and the subsequent Johnson gov promised have come to pass?

You had the mastermind behind VL on telly the other day basically admitting he twisted the truth (eg turkey) and he didn't know if brexit was a good idea. Johnson wrote two articles because he didn't believe in it either, it was just a convenient (and successful) way to further his career.

Do you honestly believe any of those politicans actually had the best interests of the you and the UK at heart? Or is it more likely they used Brexit as a means to an end?
thank you, I like to keep you brexiters on your toes, but this probably a flying visit as I'm busier now, except I'm stuck at home having to isolate as our son got Covid at the end of last week. At least we have a paddling pool.

So, what is stopping you using it as an opportunity of becoming a supplier yourself? Turning out £5 parts until your heart is content?

[BeElBeeBub]

Why do you need clarification? You have clearly pinned it on Brexit and some cock and bull story about CE, which is totally irrelevant to trading.

are you saying I made this up?

That's a direct quote from the email they sent me.

Regardless of what you believe *they* believe about CE marking, *they* believe there is an issue with shipping the part and *they* aren't shipping the part to me and I don't have the part.

This is in marked contrast to last year when there were zero issues.

CE marking is massively relevant to trading. Without a CE mark, you can't sell your goods in the EU. 

So basically you've come on here posting a sob story that Brexit is to blame for your lack of parts, now you're saying you will check what the real reason is.

Project fear is most definitely alive and kicking.

Brexit is the reason. CE marking wasn't an issue when we were in the SM. Now it's an issue.

I want to find out from them the exact CE issue.

In fact CE marking and problems surrounding it was one of the things I raised as a problem way back before we even started negotiating.  Brexiters here said "no it isn't", yet here it is.

Likewise, remember when I said "the Irish border will be a problem"..... "No it won't be" said the brexiter here.

You can't keep calling it project fear when the things it predicted are actually happening.

[BeElBeeBub]

Well of course you will never see the positives,so here is simple work around and you just magnify a very minor inconvenience out of all proportion.

You will never get it,ask most who voted leave they voted to stay in the original referendum thought the common market a good idea the political project is not what we signed up for.

You lost the vote will never accept that and like so many only believe in democracy when it goes your way.

It's pointless you will find one inconvenience after another to confirm your belief it's unfair and a massive mistake.

it's bugger all to do with not accepting brexit. You guys always bang on about democracy.

First it was the reason why we could ask again.

Then it was the reason why we couldn't delay it during a pandemic

Now it's happened it's the reason we can't question any of the effects.

We were told cheaper stuff, less red tape, easier trade, no loss of our right to live and work in EU, more control.

Stuff has got more expensive (and yes some of that rise has been covid/shipping related), paper work has gone up, our ability to live and work around Europe reduced (I'm not talking about trade restrictions) and we seek to have even less control than before. We can't even control our own internal borders anymore.

Here's an exercise.

Take all of vote leaves promises, Gove, Cummings, johnson's etc promises and then see which ones have actually come true.

What things that VL and the subsequent Johnson gov promised have come to pass?

You had the mastermind behind VL on telly the other day basically admitting he twisted the truth (eg turkey) and he didn't know if brexit was a good idea. Johnson wrote two articles because he didn't believe in it either, it was just a convenient (and successful) way to further his career.

Do you honestly believe any of those politicans actually had the best interests of the you and the UK at heart? Or is it more likely they used Brexit as a means to an end?

Despite all that good to see you back.

thank you, I like to keep you brexiters on your toes, but this probably a flying visit as I'm busier now, except I'm stuck at home having to isolate as our son got Covid at the end of last week. At least we have a paddling pool.

[Nick]

For what it's worth I've asked for clarification about what the actual hitch is.

Why do you need clarification? You have clearly pinned it on Brexit and some cock and bull story about CE, which is totally irrelevant to trading.

This is due to the CE restrictions on this part.

So basically you've come on here posting a sob story that Brexit is to blame for your lack of parts, now you're saying you will check what the real reason is.

Project fear is most definitely alive and kicking.

[BeElBeeBub]

CE is a certificate of quality standard, nothing to do with trading parts. It's not even a legal requirement so on

I know exactly what CE marks are and what they signify. I used to do the technical packages for CE marking.

For what it's worth I've asked for clarification about what the actual hitch is.

But the end point is, this is not just s minor inconvenience. I don't have the part. If this was part of a customers project I would be late in delivering or would be paying more than quoted.

Ask any builder how much of a "mild inconvenience" the difficulty of getting materials is.

This issue is replicated across all sorts of industries. A friend's seen his sales to Ireland (agri machinery) fall off a cliff. What had been a growing sector is now not worth the hassle after a couple of jobs where he lost money because the costs were higher than anticipated and now he's adjusted his prices to reflect that, he's uncompetitive so his customers source from France and Italy. He's seen a.drop in sales to the continent as well.

As PP highlighted, bike bits are that little bit harder to get. No they aren't rocket parts, but that's exactly the point. Moving super high value, high tech items around is almost easier.  The the time and cost of paperwork and certification are easier to absorb in a £5m rocket thingamajig than a £5 bike part.

[Borchester]

Don't know about ordering special industrial products, but a Netherlands-based supplier of bike bits (relative is a keen cyclist) no longer sells to the UK because of the extra cost and paper work. There are ways round it, but they all add time and cost...


PS just looked them up:


Britain in 2021
Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty due to Brexit surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.
Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.
We have many customers within the UK and would like to be able to trade with them. Not being able to send parcels to the UK does not work in any way in our favour and it is not what we wanted. We are forced by British policy to stop dealing with British customers. If you're angry about this, and you may well be so, please contact your elected representative in the UK.

How much extra paperwork and taxation is required?

And what are these bike bits the Cloggies are unable to supply. It is only a bike for Christ's sake, not a space rocket.

All sounds a bit iffy.

[patman post]

Don't know about ordering special industrial products, but a Netherlands-based supplier of bike bits (relative is a keen cyclist) no longer sells to the UK because of the extra cost and paper work. There are ways round it, but they all add time and cost...


PS just looked them up:


Britain in 2021
Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty due to Brexit surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.
Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.
We have many customers within the UK and would like to be able to trade with them. Not being able to send parcels to the UK does not work in any way in our favour and it is not what we wanted. We are forced by British policy to stop dealing with British customers. If you're angry about this, and you may well be so, please contact your elected representative in the UK.

[Nick]

Long time no argue!

Hello my brexiter friends!

I hope you are all keeping well and enjoying your sovereignty!

Anyway, I've been off the forum for a while busy with other stuff.

However this came to bite me on the arse today and I thought I'd post.

Backstory:

For several years now I have built and maintained a remote water treatment plant.  The monitoring system is home brewed from various bits of off the shelf electronic equipment and actually works quite well.

Periodically I have replaced or upgraded parts and buy various pressure, level, temperature etc sensors.

Last year I upgraded some sensors and bought the parts from large distributor  I looked up the parts I needed, confirmed the specs, added them to the cart, hit "checkout", paid and the parts appeared a few days later from the various depots they operate.

Last week I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade a tank level monitor.  I had spec'd the part and there were a few options but the best technical fit was an ultrasonic unit.  Not hugely expensive, right size, right comms protocols etc.

I went online, and bought it.  And then spent the last few days updating the software to accommodate the new sensor.

By today, it hadn't arrived so I checked my emails to see if it was out of stock.

I don't have a VAT number because I'm not a trader and don't get near the threshold anyway.  So now what?

I've double checked, there are no UK stockists of this part.  There are several other European distributors, who i have used before - none have the UK as an option for delivery.

The american manufacturer used to have a UK "store" which I had used for other parts before, but that appears to be shuttered and I have to order via the US store and pay as much in shipping as the part costs.

The alternatives I can (possibly) get hold of are also twice the price, larger and don't use the same comms protocol so would require even more tinkering.

So there we have it.  A textbook Non-Tariff Barrier.  Entirely due to brexit, which has now turned a few swipes on smartphone to an hour or so chasing and a wasted day of coding.

Still, I'm sure one of you will be along to tell me how this is

a) nothing to do with brexit
b) the EU punishing us
c) I should be VAT registered
d) actually less red tape than before
e) worth it for some nebulous reason

CE is a certificate of quality standard, nothing to do with trading parts. It's not even a legal requirement so one way or the other this is nonsense.

[cromwell]

I know several who could.  The point is that I didn't have to before.

As I said, previously I had a choice of a dozen suppliers, it was a 60 second job and the part arrived 3 days later via free shipping.

Now, I have no "domestic" suppliers, only US and EU ones.  The US ones will incur tariffs on top of the quoted price and take a week (at least), the EU ones have extra paperwork as well.  Now I have to call one of my mates and ask if I can use their VAT number to get around a bit of Brexit red tape.

In short, I have less choice, higher costs, more admin and longer waits.

BTW this is the same crap that's screwing everyone exporting or importing to a greater or lesser degree. 

Nobody (can you find an example of someone with less costs, paperwork and admin now?) is better off

Well of course you will never see the positives,so here is simple work around and you just magnify a very minor inconvenience out of all proportion.

You will never get it,ask most who voted leave they voted to stay in the original referendum thought the common market a good idea the political project is not what we signed up for.

You lost the vote will never accept that and like so many only believe in democracy when it goes your way.

It's pointless you will find one inconvenience after another to confirm your belief it's unfair and a massive mistake.

Despite all that good to see you back.

[BeElBeeBub]

So you know no one who is vat registered who'd order it for you?

I know several who could.  The point is that I didn't have to before.

As I said, previously I had a choice of a dozen suppliers, it was a 60 second job and the part arrived 3 days later via free shipping.

Now, I have no "domestic" suppliers, only US and EU ones.  The US ones will incur tariffs on top of the quoted price and take a week (at least), the EU ones have extra paperwork as well.  Now I have to call one of my mates and ask if I can use their VAT number to get around a bit of Brexit red tape.

In short, I have less choice, higher costs, more admin and longer waits.

BTW this is the same crap that's screwing everyone exporting or importing to a greater or lesser degree. 

Nobody (can you find an example of someone with less costs, paperwork and admin now?) is better off

[cromwell]

So you know no one who is vat registered who'd order it for you?