Social care: What would a National Insurance rise mean for me?

[T00ts]

And I can't help but agree with you,I really do think we need political reform and actually started a thread  but it attracted little interest.

It's no use ditching what we've got warts and all for something much much worse.

TBH T00ts rather than being direct democracy I fear a rise in extremism combined with a breakdown of law all mixed in with total mayhem.

I tend to agree with you and I wish there was a better answer. I feel that if the relatively silent majority don't start standing up and getting themselves counted then the extremists are already among us and locking us down. Most seem to be like the veritable frog quite happily enjoying the warm water in the saucepan at present. But it is starting to heat up and hurt. We have a PM who is frankly out of his depth. He started well enough but he evidently can't cope when the chips are down. He has surrounded himself with yes men to the detriment of the whole country and left talent on the back benches chafing away for fear of losing the majority. I have predicted several times that the men in grey suits must already be chatting amongst themselves. Last night's 'success' getting this bill through the Commons almost looked like a set-up. Where did all that dissention go? Was it confected so that the polls would drop giving those same men in grey the means to oust BJ soon? I did wonder when I saw the vote.

No matter what we do now or what colour badge we might wear the damage has been done from Bliar onwards. Respect was lost. Blair let everyone who believed the third way was something new discover that the smoke and mirrors thrived under him and Brown the blunderbuss just compounded the fury. Since then we have had the debacle of a Com/Libdem combine that lets so many of the young down. Those young are now the new marrieds looking at a lifetime of struggle with growing debt created in part by the ever profligate Labour party and a growing pension/care requirement that has been neglected for decades. WE all knew it was coming why didn't they? Then we had May who deserved her chance but failed miserably. Then come BJ who initially had the look of the type of maverick that the country needed, but he hasn't the staying power and I still wonder if he was more affected by Covid than they let on. He hasn't got a handle on the Government or his homelife since.

[cromwell]

I can't help but feel that it is another sound bite that feels as if it's the answer to all problems. With the current concentration on contention no matter the subject, it is purely an alternative with hope attached. We already have a system that is abused and disrespected and I can't help but feel that any re-hash no doubt in the hope of helping an otherwise feeble set of MPs get elected will just lead us into more scenes of social disruption and misery for many.

And I can't help but agree with you,I really do think we need political reform and actually started a thread  but it attracted little interest.

It's no use ditching what we've got warts and all for something much much worse.

TBH T00ts rather than being direct democracy I fear a rise in extremism combined with a breakdown of law all mixed in with total mayhem.

[T00ts]

Yeah but T00ts has a point,can you explain what is direct democracy and how will it work?

I can't help but feel that it is another sound bite that feels as if it's the answer to all problems. With the current concentration on contention no matter the subject, it is purely an alternative with hope attached. We already have a system that is abused and disrespected and I can't help but feel that any re-hash no doubt in the hope of helping an otherwise feeble set of MPs get elected will just lead us into more scenes of social disruption and misery for many.

[cromwell]

And that has wiped out the Tories lead completely.
https://inspolitics.com/yougov-poll-puts-labour-in-lead-as-tory-support-drops-five-points/
Good. They'll have to remember what Tories are supposed to be. Low taxation?
I hope that they'll be kicked out next opportunity after their constant lies and u-turns.
I'm ready for direct democracy and proportional representation.

Yeah but T00ts has a point,can you explain what is direct democracy and how will it work?

[T00ts]

This is true , the NHS has needed reforming for decades . Only this week as Johnson was asking for more cash to prop it up the NHS had already decided where to spend it

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/09/nhs-hiring-army-of-new-270000-bosses-wholl-check-how-36bn-is-being-spent-15230016/

They wont be getting my house to pay for it .
Which by the way is another injustice . Johnson has said the max anyone will pay is 86K  . So a million pound house in London pays 8.6%  and a 100K house in Rochdale pays 86% .

Vote Tory 

There is no doubt that we are being sold a pup and for those who really hoped that this would be an answer the let down will be huge. I guess the hope is that private insurance will step in to bridge the gap with policies to cover the £86,000 limit. The trouble is that no one size fits all and never will. I hope you can save your house but my experience of friends confronted with the current bills tells me there is no way. If you are the last survivor when you pass they will take it.

One particular friend has a husband who has been ill and expected to die for at least 18months at home. She has nursed him for some time. He expected death from that but has now been diagnosed with Dementia. He knew of the position and always managed the finances. They reorganised the bank accounts over 2 years ago to enable my friend to run things for the future. Social Services and the medics have decided that she can no longer care for him successfully so have put him in a care home. They have put the poor man through no end of hoops (investigations they called them) to prove that his wife hadn't stolen his money. They can't touch the house as it's joint, but they have insisted that the funds that were transferred go back into his account for his care which is eye watering - I believe in excess of £2000 per month. They have been given no choice. She has power of attorney over his affairs but she is reduced now to to the bare minimum (their comment being that they wouldn't leave her penniless) and has to top up the fees from his portion and really doesn't know what will happen when it is gone. It seems impossibly harsh. Her house is an ex council house with not much value in comparison to some. She has been beside herself and they thought they had everything planned for.

[Streetwalker]

That's fair enough and I guess if I look back it crossed my mind too. But I do think that our duty is to be as independent as possible and times have changed. Cradle to grave has gone just as jobs for life have. Is it right? Well the jury is out on that one. We have a duty to those who genuinely can't care for themselves and it seems to me that all Political parties are missing that point. Barry wants direct democracy. Goodness knows how that would work, no-one agrees with anyone else even here on a tiny forum and with the new wave of not having to accept any majority vote it would be mayhem. 

As far as throwing more dosh at the NHS we might as well set up bonfire night with a new tradition of burning £100 notes. The NHS as it currently stands will never have enough money. It is designed that way.

This is true , the NHS has needed reforming for decades . Only this week as Johnson was asking for more cash to prop it up the NHS had already decided where to spend it

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/09/nhs-hiring-army-of-new-270000-bosses-wholl-check-how-36bn-is-being-spent-15230016/

They wont be getting my house to pay for it .
Which by the way is another injustice . Johnson has said the max anyone will pay is 86K  . So a million pound house in London pays 8.6%  and a 100K house in Rochdale pays 86% .

Vote Tory 

[T00ts]

Well excuse me Toots but I did buy my own house to leave it to my kids . That the  future generations of my family will not have to pay exorbitant rents to unscrupulous landlords  was the whole point of buying it . You now want to give your hard earned to another  bunch of chancers, those  that run the care industry .

You say it needs looking into ,for me it needs dismantling and becoming part of the NHS . If that means tax rises than so be it ,a lot fairer than targeting one section of society that being the homeowner .

That's fair enough and I guess if I look back it crossed my mind too. But I do think that our duty is to be as independent as possible and times have changed. Cradle to grave has gone just as jobs for life have. Is it right? Well the jury is out on that one. We have a duty to those who genuinely can't care for themselves and it seems to me that all Political parties are missing that point. Barry wants direct democracy. Goodness knows how that would work, no-one agrees with anyone else even here on a tiny forum and with the new wave of not having to accept any majority vote it would be mayhem. 

As far as throwing more dosh at the NHS we might as well set up bonfire night with a new tradition of burning £100 notes. The NHS as it currently stands will never have enough money. It is designed that way.

[Barry]

And that has wiped out the Tories lead completely.
https://inspolitics.com/yougov-poll-puts-labour-in-lead-as-tory-support-drops-five-points/
Good. They'll have to remember what Tories are supposed to be. Low taxation?
I hope that they'll be kicked out next opportunity after their constant lies and u-turns.
I'm ready for direct democracy and proportional representation.

[Streetwalker]

I don't see the problem. I own my own house. It was my choice but I didn't buy it to leave to my kids. I bought the first one to give them a decent home til they flew the nest but if my care means that the house finances it then so be it.
What does worry me is the big business that tends to dominate the care industry. It seems profits accrued on the basis of poor pay and conditions for their workers and often extortionate fees. Someone does need to look at this.

Well excuse me Toots but I did buy my own house to leave it to my kids . That the  future generations of my family will not have to pay exorbitant rents to unscrupulous landlords  was the whole point of buying it . You now want to give your hard earned to another  bunch of chancers, those  that run the care industry .

You say it needs looking into ,for me it needs dismantling and becoming part of the NHS . If that means tax rises than so be it ,a lot fairer than targeting one section of society that being the homeowner . 

[cromwell]

That's great T00ts and when I said I didn't believe in inherited wealth on another of this forums  antecedents it went down like a lead balloon.

The problem has been those with no assets have been and are still neglected,I could write a book on how they and those with learning disability or behavioural issues are seen as a commodity but  I expect that no one on here perhaps with the very odd exception gives a toss.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-58466839

I rest my case.

[cromwell]

I don't see the problem. I own my own house. It was my choice but I didn't buy it to leave to my kids. I bought the first one to give them a decent home til they flew the nest but if my care means that the house finances it then so be it.
What does worry me is the big business that tends to dominate the care industry. It seems profits accrued on the basis of poor pay and conditions for their workers and often extortionate fees. Someone does need to look at this.

That's great T00ts and when I said I didn't believe in inherited wealth on another of this forums  antecedents it went down like a lead balloon.

The problem has been those with no assets have been and are still neglected,I could write a book on how they and those with learning disability or behavioural issues are seen as a commodity but  I expect that no one on here perhaps with the very odd exception gives a toss.

[johnofgwent]

Apparently the accommodation costs of residential care are not covered so people will still end up having to  sell their homes.

Yes, just as with labour in Wales, you can't trust a politician

[patman post]

I don't see the problem. I own my own house. It was my choice but I didn't buy it to leave to my kids. I bought the first one to give them a decent home til they flew the nest but if my care means that the house finances it then so be it.
What does worry me is the big business that tends to dominate the care industry. It seems profits accrued on the basis of poor pay and conditions for their workers and often extortionate fees. Someone does need to look at this.

Some large organisations, with several establishments, are collecting fees that are then channeled to offshore companies, paying directors dividends into offshore accounts, are milking the system. It's often not clear where the money actually goes.
As you say, they should be investigated...

[T00ts]

I don't see the problem. I own my own house. It was my choice but I didn't buy it to leave to my kids. I bought the first one to give them a decent home til they flew the nest but if my care means that the house finances it then so be it.
What does worry me is the big business that tends to dominate the care industry. It seems profits accrued on the basis of poor pay and conditions for their workers and often extortionate fees. Someone does need to look at this.

[Borchester]

I am not joking

That is unusual