Have we sold our souls?

[papasmurf]

I think we have to ask some serious questions about people in high places. There seems to be a naivety or is it simply too trusting? We seem to think that we can outsource essential services without a care in the world. It is dog eat dog even in the EU who purport to love all and equality in equal measure, but when push comes to shove we cannot beat self reliance.

For anyone suffering bubble deprivation:-
How do you make yeast CO2?
Image result for how to make co2
Add 1 to 2 cups of sugar and shake well. The amount of yeast and sugar will determine the rate and duration of CO2 generation. More yeast will result in stronger CO2 production, but will exhaust the sugar quicker. Using 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and 2 cups of sugar will result in CO2 production for about 4 to 5 weeks.

Toots it is CO2 in multiple tonnes that is needed.

[T00ts]

Do you WANT a cure for cancer, or not ?


Some people wanted to send nail bombs to my boss's wife and kids at home, and firebomb my car. I'm ok with that as long as you downgrade such vermin to subhuman so my licence to experiment allows me to include them as test subjects


The really sick fact is that none of these scum refused the treatments for their grannies on the grounds the methods used were unethical.


And that includes the ass hole my thought experiment's successful clinical product was used on...

You are so graphic - it shocked me.

[johnofgwent]

Good grief!

Do you WANT a cure for cancer, or not ?


Some people wanted to send nail bombs to my boss's wife and kids at home, and firebomb my car. I'm ok with that as long as you downgrade such vermin to subhuman so my licence to experiment allows me to include them as test subjects


The really sick fact is that none of these scum refused the treatments for their grannies on the grounds the methods used were unethical.


And that includes the ass hole my thought experiment's successful clinical product was used on...

[patman post]

I used CO2 on lab rats in early 1970s and, as you say, they panic and crap themselves and pee themselves, so pretty awful to watch.
Our doctor in charge of the research unit could rabbit chop them with 2 fingers, but I couldn't get the knack. As you know, they can give you a nasty bite!

So it seems the outcry against kosher and halal slaughter by non Muslim and Jewish meat eaters could almost be regarded as hypocritical...

[papasmurf]

The reasons given were staff shortages

I have to take that with a very large pinch of salt, those ammonium Nitrate fertiliser of plants which CO2 is a by product of, employ few people in high paid employment.

[Borchester]

Again we have had our feet held to the fire as two American owned fertilizer plants who supply 60% of our CO2 as a by-product decided to shut down. The reasons given were staff shortages I believe and mainly rising gas prices.

CO2 is a very valuable commodity since it is used in some way in pretty much all our food and drink yet I have heard that it increases shelf life by 5 days, puts the bubbles in the bottles, stuns before slaughter and no doubt countless other uses in the food chain.

The boss is an American millionaire but don't let's hold that against him, he has a healthy wish to be a billionaire - no crime in that. The crime is how we are so dependent on just a couple of businesses who can drive us to the wall on a whim to the extent of us now being persuaded to pump in millions which will apparently only facilitate delivery of CO2 for a month!
It seems to me that we need to lose the CO2 and find an alternative or not rely on the five days etc. Is it beyond our savvy?

if the Yanks are closing down because they aren't making any money out of selling whatever they are making, then their prices were probably too low and we should

(a) be glad that we have had such an easy ride so far

(b) accept that if CO2 is such a vital resource (although I thought the idea was to reduce it as much as possible.. I can never keep up with these fashions), we should dig a bit deeper into our pockets and that should be that.

[Barry]

We used it to try to kill off rats whose livers we needed but quickly found the blood acidification totally screwed with our in vitro metabolic experiments, and reverted to the swifter and far less troublesome in the end getting the rat by thevtail and swimming it head first hard against the side of an old bosh sink.

I used CO2 on lab rats in early 1970s and, as you say, they panic and crap themselves and pee themselves, so pretty awful to watch.
Our doctor in charge of the research unit could rabbit chop them with 2 fingers, but I couldn't get the knack. As you know, they can give you a nasty bite!

[T00ts]

'scuse me but as probably the only past / current owner of an 1876 licence to experiment on living animals on the forum,


C02 isn't used to stun the animals. It's used to asphyxiate them. As a heavy gas it falls to the floor. They load the chickens into a sort of lift shaft that lowers the birds alive into a shaft filled with co2 and they die of asphyxiation down there. When they stop moving the cage is raised... All documented by Tesco to show they don't do like be halal slaughter...

It's a nasty way to go as the Co2 raises the blood acidity in the final moments causing stress and panic.


We used it to try to kill off rats whose livers we needed but quickly found the blood acidification totally screwed with our in vitro metabolic experiments, and reverted to the swifter and far less troublesome in the end getting the rat by thevtail and swimming it head first hard against the side of an old bosh sink.

Good grief!

[johnofgwent]

'scuse me but as probably the only past / current owner of an 1876 licence to experiment on living animals on the forum,


C02 isn't used to stun the animals. It's used to asphyxiate them. As a heavy gas it falls to the floor. They load the chickens into a sort of lift shaft that lowers the birds alive into a shaft filled with co2 and they die of asphyxiation down there. When they stop moving the cage is raised... All documented by Tesco to show they don't do like be halal slaughter...

It's a nasty way to go as the Co2 raises the blood acidity in the final moments causing stress and panic.


We used it to try to kill off rats whose livers we needed but quickly found the blood acidification totally screwed with our in vitro metabolic experiments, and reverted to the swifter and far less troublesome in the end getting the rat by thevtail and swimming it head first hard against the side of an old bosh sink.

[patman post]

There's almost never one way of doing things. The most popular ways prove to be so until they don't. Then other ways are rediscovered or developed. 

For food preservation, perhaps greater use of irradiation might be brought in.

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/irradiated-food

There are also various methods of stunning animals before slaughter — though perhaps less animal rearing and meat consumption might bring all round environment and health benefits.   

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/how-are-animals-stunned-prior-to-slaughter/#:~:text=%20How%20are%20animals%20stunned%20prior%20to%20slaughter%3F,animal%20inhales%20the%20carbon%20dioxide%20gas%2C...%20More%20

As for being self sufficient — it seems money's a great subversion, just look how many UK start-ups do well then sellout to overseas owners. Outsourcing can tick all the business and social boxes for efficiency, employment, pollution control, etc. The world has truly become a global village and only a few manage a pretence of efficient and successful self sufficiency — eg, the likes of Cuba, North Korea, Turkmenistan...

[Sheepy]

As a nation, are we utterly mad? Or just stupid?

Or just constantly conned just because they can?

[srb7677]

Outsourcing and putting everything up for sale to the highest bidder, whomever that may be, was always intensely short sighted. Now foreigners - some of them potentially hostile powers and all of them likely to put their own interests above ours - own most of our gas, electricity and water suppliers, as well as most of our railways.

And the large gas storage tanks we used to see everywhere have gone so we have no gas reserves anymore, utterly reliant on "just in time" supplies, some of it from foreign sources.

As a nation, are we utterly mad? Or just stupid?

To abolish all reserves whilst selling off our essential services to potential enemies just to make a few quid makes no strategic sense at all. In the interests of neoliberal economic dogma, we as a nation have put our economy at the mercy of foreigners. And no amount of nuclear deterrent can change that idiocy.

[T00ts]

I think we have to ask some serious questions about people in high places. There seems to be a naivety or is it simply too trusting? We seem to think that we can outsource essential services without a care in the world. It is dog eat dog even in the EU who purport to love all and equality in equal measure, but when push comes to shove we cannot beat self reliance.

For anyone suffering bubble deprivation:-
How do you make yeast CO2?
Image result for how to make co2
Add 1 to 2 cups of sugar and shake well. The amount of yeast and sugar will determine the rate and duration of CO2 generation. More yeast will result in stronger CO2 production, but will exhaust the sugar quicker. Using 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and 2 cups of sugar will result in CO2 production for about 4 to 5 weeks.

[cromwell]

Again we have had our feet held to the fire as two American owned fertilizer plants who supply 60% of our CO2 as a by-product decided to shut down. The reasons given were staff shortages I believe and mainly rising gas prices.

CO2 is a very valuable commodity since it is used in some way in pretty much all our food and drink yet I have heard that it increases shelf life by 5 days, puts the bubbles in the bottles, stuns before slaughter and no doubt countless other uses in the food chain.

The boss is an American millionaire but don't let's hold that against him, he has a healthy wish to be a billionaire - no crime in that. The crime is how we are so dependent on just a couple of businesses who can drive us to the wall on a whim to the extent of us now being persuaded to pump in millions which will apparently only facilitate delivery of CO2 for a month!
It seems to me that we need to lose the CO2 and find an alternative or not rely on the five days etc. Is it beyond our savvy?

Our souls? Yes T00ts and there's plenty of them who all seem to gravitate to politics and cock things up.

[T00ts]

Again we have had our feet held to the fire as two American owned fertilizer plants who supply 60% of our CO2 as a by-product decided to shut down. The reasons given were staff shortages I believe and mainly rising gas prices.

CO2 is a very valuable commodity since it is used in some way in pretty much all our food and drink yet I have heard that it increases shelf life by 5 days, puts the bubbles in the bottles, stuns before slaughter and no doubt countless other uses in the food chain.

The boss is an American millionaire but don't let's hold that against him, he has a healthy wish to be a billionaire - no crime in that. The crime is how we are so dependent on just a couple of businesses who can drive us to the wall on a whim to the extent of us now being persuaded to pump in millions which will apparently only facilitate delivery of CO2 for a month!
It seems to me that we need to lose the CO2 and find an alternative or not rely on the five days etc. Is it beyond our savvy?