Three Labour MPs could defect after being disillusioned with starmer

[Sheepy]

In my humble opinion you full of shit and to lazy to think. But I am also to polite to say so.

True I am very polite Borchester, most of the time.

[Borchester]

In your humble opinion you mean no doubt, not that all the evidence says something quite different, like using those speeches to fool the masses and make as much on the side as is possible, all this all for the greater good and we ain't in it for the money, is utter bollox.
Even your mate Corbyn couldn't find anyone who wasn't a millionaire to sit on his front benches.

In my humble opinion you full of shit and to lazy to think. But I am also to polite to say so.

[Sheepy]

No. With their natural tendency to bullshit, most politicians could make a lot more money selling double glazing or motor cars or some such. The problem is that they want power, or at least the trappings of power, which is where the confusion lies. Politicians make speeches and strut the world stage and ordinary folk look on and think, ahha, there must be some deep meaning behind all this but there ain't. Politicians like to make speeches and strut the world stage, but it rarely makes much odds.

In your humble opinion you mean no doubt, not that all the evidence says something quite different, like using those speeches to fool the masses and make as much on the side as is possible, all this all for the greater good and we ain't in it for the money, is utter bollox.
Even your mate Corbyn couldn't find anyone who wasn't a millionaire to sit on his front benches.

[Borchester]

You do make me laugh Borchester, the big difference between them is the size of their ever-growing bank balances. Which I don't know if thomas inadvertently pointed out or not.

No. With their natural tendency to bullshit, most politicians could make a lot more money selling double glazing or motor cars or some such. The problem is that they want power, or at least the trappings of power, which is where the confusion lies. Politicians make speeches and strut the world stage and ordinary folk look on and think, ahha, there must be some deep meaning behind all this but there ain't. Politicians like to make speeches and strut the world stage, but it rarely makes much odds.

[Sheepy]

And there is Labour's real problem. Despite all its commitment to scientific socialism, it is always looking for a white knight to lead them against the forces of evil etc etc. The Tories tend to take the view that, well, he is a silly looking bastard but will do until someone better turns up.  I think that is the real reason the brothers and sisters rattle on so much about class war. They are terrified by the realisation of how much of its membership have an innate tendency to touch its cap to someone or other.

You do make me laugh Borchester, the big difference between them is the size of their ever-growing bank balances. Which I don't know if thomas inadvertently pointed out or not.

[Borchester]

I doubt it steve. Labour simply arent ruthless enough unlike the tories. Labour will bumble along in delusion to the next election thinking they are going to win , face another electoral kicking , and then after starmers resignation and a lot of party soul searching , navel gazing and promises "lessons have been learnt" , will then elect the next clown whoever that may be.

And there is Labour's real problem. Despite all its commitment to scientific socialism, it is always looking for a white knight to lead them against the forces of evil etc etc. The Tories tend to take the view that, well, he is a silly looking bastard but will do until someone better turns up.  I think that is the real reason the brothers and sisters rattle on so much about class war. They are terrified by the realisation of how much of its membership have an innate tendency to touch its cap to someone or other.

[Thomas]

Well you and I  have a different world view from each other but I agree with you that the current Labour party is hopelessly out of touch and probably heading for a far worse defeat than in 2019. Only a strong collapse in the Tory vote too under our FPTP system can hope to save it,

I think thats a poor choice of description.

FPTP wont save labour. At best steve , it will give it a momentary respite , nothing more.

The long terms problems will still be there haunting labour in the background .

They may replace him with someone who as of this moment is more popular whilst still being mostly in the Blairite camp like Andy Burnham.

I doubt it steve. Labour simply arent ruthless enough unlike the tories. Labour will bumble along in delusion to the next election thinking they are going to win , face another electoral kicking , and then after starmers resignation and a lot of party soul searching , navel gazing and promises "lessons have been learnt" , will then elect the next clown whoever that may be.

[srb7677]

The upper echelons of the Labour party have a different world view than the rest of us.   

Well you and I  have a different world view from each other but I agree with you that the current Labour party is hopelessly out of touch and probably heading for a far worse defeat than in 2019. Only a strong collapse in the Tory vote too under our FPTP system can hope to save it, though the Blairites are likely to ditch Starmer now they think that MPs can stitch up the leadership election. They may replace him with someone who as of this moment is more popular whilst still being mostly in the Blairite camp like Andy Burnham. But his popularity will not last without a serious change of tone and direction. And if support for the Tories drops too far, they won't hesitate to replace Boris with Sunak and thereby engineer a popularity bounce for themselves.

Of course you exaggerate in your depiction of Labour being devoid of anyone of principle. But it is merely an exaggeration of a real situation. 150,000  principled members who genuinely believed in something have now left. There are still a few MPs of principle in the PLP but they are greatly outnumbered by self serving careerists who wouldn't recognise a principle if it smacked them in the face. And it is these latter who are now in charge.

[Borchester]

I do not regard the Mail as a reliable source at all. But if there are 3 Labour MPs planning to eff off to the Tories, all that proves is that they shouldn't be Labour MPs. Is not Keir Starmer right wing enough?

All this would demonstrate to me is that their desire to be in power trumps any kind of principle. There are far too many in Labour like that, not fit to be MPs. A party whose members are unwelcome for believing in something and whose MPs are mostly a bunch of unprincipled careerists. Labour does not deserve our votes.

Well possibly not.But if you remove all the unprincipled careerists then the Labour party is reduced to six marxists sipping nettle tea in Jeremy Corbyn's shed and waiting for the chance to knife each other.

Meanwhile Boris will be doing his usual Eliza act. The ice will crack beneath his feet, but he will skip from floe to floe and finally reach dry land.

I saw a movie once about the fall of Berlin. Russian tanks are in the streets, the Chancellery is under fire, the end is barely hours away and all Hitler's acolytes have to look forward to is a brief meeting with Albert Pierrepoint. And at that moment a senior Nazi starts plotting to become the next head of the German Red Cross.

The upper echelons of the Labour party have a different world view than the rest of us.   

[Thomas]

Who would these Labour MPs defect to? Alba? The Reform Party? The Lib Dems?

The clue is in the OP. Do try and learn to read your english language.

Three Labour MPs could defect to the Conservatives because they are disillusioned with Sir Keir Starmer's leadership

[HDQQ]

Who would these Labour MPs defect to? Alba? The Reform Party? The Lib Dems?

[Thomas]

The Labour leadership and those advising it don't actually seem to realise that it is not 1997 anymore.

So much is different now - the loss of Scotland, the loss of the working class, Brexit, much of it in part the long term consequences of their role models.

So New Labour revisited is not delivering the hoped for bounce in the polls, surprise, surprise. In fact, Labour supprt has declined still further. As it was always going to.

Now that I am out of it, am happy to see it happening. Labour must die so that something better can replace it.

loss of old labour heartlands under starmer in northern england like hartlepool which corbyn kept twice , loss of 125 000 members  , and bumping along in third in scotland fighting it out with the greens and liberals not to mention as you say how english brexiters feel about a pro eu new labour type party desperate for england to rejoin after years of trying to disrespect peoples 2016 vote.

I can't believe how a so called mainstream european political party can be this bad at politics.

[Thomas]

I do not regard the Mail as a reliable source at all. But if there are 3 Labour MPs planning to eff off to the Tories, all that proves is that they shouldn't be Labour MPs. Is not Keir Starmer right wing enough?

Neither do i steve, but as i said up the thread , its all in good fun , and at the end of the day dont shoot the messenger. I read about if first on twitter , long before i read the mail article.

As for labour mps planning to go to the tories , well we both know ther are many past and present in your former party who are nothing more than red tories in disguise , starmer being one of them. Liz kendal was another , and many of the blairites i could name from past and present.

We also talked about how scottish labour regualrly go into coalition with the tories to keep the snp out , as in aberdeen.

Also scotlands sole labour mp ian murray was elected off the back of edinburghs posh morningside conservative vote who voted for him tactically. So not sure what the shock is over this story , wether its true or not.

It merely highlights yet again the cesspit your former party actually is , and why i keep saying you need a new proper left wing socialist type party in your country.

We will wipe out the remants of blairite labour in scotland  , have no fear.

[srb7677]

poor auld keir.

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 39% (-1)
LAB: 35% (-2)
LDM: 8% (+1)
GRN: 6% (=)
SNP: 6% (+1)

Via @OpiniumResearch
, 29 Sep - 1 Oct.
Changes w/ 16-17 Sep.

The Labour leadership and those advising it don't actually seem to realise that it is not 1997 anymore.

So much is different now - the loss of Scotland, the loss of the working class, Brexit, much of it in part the long term consequences of their role models.

So New Labour revisited is not delivering the hoped for bounce in the polls, surprise, surprise. In fact, Labour supprt has declined still further. As it was always going to.

Now that I am out of it, am happy to see it happening. Labour must die so that something better can replace it.

[srb7677]

Three Labour MPs could defect to the Conservatives because they are disillusioned with Sir Keir Starmer's leadership

Three Labour MPs are understood to be considering defecting to Conservatives
They are said to have become disillusioned with Sir Keir Starmer's leadership 
The three MPs have decided to 'open lines of communication' with Tory whips
A Labour MP has not 'crossed' to join the Tory Party since Reg Prentice in 1977

They are understood to be in despair at Sir Keir's failure to make inroads into Boris Johnson's opinion poll lead – as well as Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner branding the Conservatives as 'racist' and 'scum'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10053155/Three-Labour-MPs-defect-Conservatives-Sir-Keir-Starmers-leadership.html

I do not regard the Mail as a reliable source at all. But if there are 3 Labour MPs planning to eff off to the Tories, all that proves is that they shouldn't be Labour MPs. Is not Keir Starmer right wing enough?

All this would demonstrate to me is that their desire to be in power trumps any kind of principle. There are far too many in Labour like that, not fit to be MPs. A party whose members are unwelcome for believing in something and whose MPs are mostly a bunch of unprincipled careerists. Labour does not deserve our votes.