Higher gas prices as Brexit is confirmed

[GerryT]

Bloody hell Thomas I bet it's tough towing your caravan with a push bike.

Btw Gerry how's Shells move to UK grabbing you? 

Pop over to that thread and you'll see, Nick is educating me, he's about to give lots of detail to the questions put to him.  It should produce tax income, no jobs though. But then you'll prob find out that Johnson is giving them a big wedge to make the move, he does need a good news story.

[cromwell]

 And then you go pedalling the same old lies.

Bloody hell Thomas I bet it's tough towing your caravan with a push bike.

Btw Gerry how's Shells move to UK grabbing you? 

[GerryT]

I dont really care what you think to be perfectly honest gerry. The reality is that northern ireland hasnt been the "achillies heel" you thought it would be for the english over brexit , which is why i find it highly amusing listening to you prattle on about the place.

A border poll absolutely solves the problem for johnson as we have discussed many a time over the years.

That why you keep replying to my comments.
Well NI is proving to be a major point for Johnson, while it doesn't bother you so much. The reality is the agreement did remove most obstacles but the UK continue to not implement the protocol (customs officials/border infrastructure). Johnson is going so far as to threaten Art16 and he's been told by the USA that will result in no trade deal and the EU have intimated that the EU/UK deal is at risk. So the UK has an internal border, part of the UK is in the SM and has ECJ oversight and NI is doing better than GB, a reminder of the folly of Brexit. So yes, nothing to see here.

is that a typo or sarcasm . difficult to tell which.

Not really, not if you think for a couple of seconds.

No ?

Didnt you once tell me with your expert knowledge of the uk that no british prime minister or parliament could be bound by any previous parliament of treaty if they chose to overturn it in parliament?

Nope I didn't, in fact I argued the total opposite. I will accept no UK govt can tie a future govt, but in my opinion not in all matters. That fully applies to domestic matters but in international matters the UK doesn't always have the choice to unilaterally make decisions. That would have been easy in the good old empire days, when the empire was large and powerful but in trade terms today the USA, Chine, EU are the main players and the UK will be a rule taker and not giver in dealing with these.

You really don't understand NI and the issues there if that's what you think. The GFA solved or brought a balance to NI, then the UK took a course that crash that, without a thought for NI. But still there are many loyalists in NI, they might be willing to settle for the NI protocol but having the 6 counties removed from the UK and joined with Ireland wouldn't solve anything, it would make matters worse.
What we need is Johnson to stay in power and for NI to see its future is better having the type of access to the EU that it currently enjoys, to see that GB doesn't really care about NI. With time the people of NI will decide what's best for NI, a border poll is a long way away.

I can just see the english running to the polls for the first time in history to rejoin the eu because they are hanging on their seats worrying about northern ireland.

Here we are again talking brexit on yet another day , the all consuming passion of someone who claims not to care about brexit and has gotten over the 2016 referendum result.

There's no need for that, just leave part of the UK in the EU and have a border down the middle of your country, that's working so far, why change it. And then you go pedalling the same old lies.

[Thomas]

I don't think Johnson has a choice on the protocol, if he pulls out and persists with that position he risks sanctions from the EU and possibly the EU taking further retaliation. In the long run that would most likely get sorted but the damage would be much longer lasting. Relationships would be at a position that neither party would trust the other. Luckily the EU needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU. A border poll doesn't solve the problem, the liar Johnson fed the NI unionists with a bucket of poo after promising the sun, moon and stars. He's created more tension and division in the north.

I dont really care what you think to be perfectly honest gerry. The reality is that northern ireland hasnt been the "achillies heel" you thought it would be for the english over brexit , which is why i find it highly amusing listening to you prattle on about the place.

A border poll absolutely solves the problem for johnson as we have discussed many a time over the years.

Luckily the EU needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU.

is that a typo or sarcasm . difficult to tell which.

I don't think Johnson has a choice on the protocol,

No ?

Didnt you once tell me with your expert knowledge of the uk that no british prime minister or parliament could be bound by any previous parliament of treaty if they chose to overturn it in parliament?

I can just see the english running to the polls for the first time in history to rejoin the eu because they are hanging on their seats worrying about northern ireland.

Here we are again talking brexit on yet another day , the all consuming passion of someone who claims not to care about brexit and has gotten over the 2016 referendum result.

[GerryT]

Oh you believe that Gerry,being an atheist I don't.......still you come from a country where church and state are as one.

How are things in places like Tuam Gerry where they buried illegitimate babies in a sewage tank and your govt had to be forced in to an investigation after denying along with yon Pope and his nuns none of it ever happened?

Still you're a forward looking country in your words and we look backwards,btw why is your govt hiding the result of that long and unfinished investigation for 30 years or have they had a rethink? 

I was being sarcastic, I've no time for the church. If you knew anything about IRL then you would know the reality is the Church has little to no influence today, very different to when I grew up, it was very powerful. Churches are empty and it's only old people that are involved, bar of course the communion/confirmation/marriage/death "Christians" who don't cross the threshold any other time, bar maybe Christmas, but even that's declining.
I totally agree with you re Tuam and I'd include the Magdalene laundries, the Churches disgusting act of limiting its liability in child abuse cases. Even when the Govt tried to remove the Church from our education system their struggling to make it happen. 

[Borchester]

. Yes the earth is getting warmer.

Not quite.

Effectively Africa and Asia is warming up while the Pacific region is cooling down. The Indians and Africans are used to a bit of sunshine, but seeing all those Hula Hula girls in thermal underwear just doesn't hit the spot somehow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDSm5wG2H88

[srb7677]

I don't doubt it's getting warmer but I aint sure it's all down to man.

Well the sun is getting gradually warmer but over a vast timescale of billions of years. Any difference on human timescales is too minuscule to measure. Yes the earth is getting warmer. It has been a lot warmer than it is now. Carbon dioxide concentrations at the time were substantially higher. This was the age of the dinosaurs. The link between carbon dioxide - and other greenhouse gasses like methane - and warmer climates has long been established. These gasses have been demonstrated under laboratory conditions to act as greenhouse gasses, essentially because they are transparent to light which they let in, but when that light hits a surface and is transformed into heat which emits as infrared it is blocked.

That the world is warming and the rate of this warming is accelerating has become a measured fact. That carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere have increased substantially is also an established fact. And yes, natural processes like volcanism can pump such gasses into the atmosphere, but the average measured frequency of such events has not increased. But the amount of carbon dioxide being pumped out by human activities has been increasing exponentially. So whilst the link has not be proven beyond all doubt absolutely, it does look highly likely to be the result of human emissions. Rational scientists and others in leading positions have concluded that humankind itself is causing the warming. Those who deny this need an alternative rational explanation for the increased CO2 in the atmosphere, as well as some kind of rational explanation as to why our vast emissions are supposedly having no effect. The balance of the evidence thus far tends to suggest not only warming, but that our own CO2 emissions are a primary cause.

As for your other point re popuplation I agree. There are too many of us for the good of humanity and the planet. Even if we all halved our carbon footprints it would make no difference if our numbers doubled. Without the kind of drastic measures no person of morality would countenance, the only ethical means  of reducing our numbers over time is to reproduce at a rate lower than the death rate globally. Of course this itself creates serious structural problems since it will for many decades lead to larger numbers of older people relative to younger ones. We need to find an economically and socially viable means of addressing this. No one wants to see the return of pensioner poverty, least of all me who is destined to become a pensioner in little more than ten years myself. As we age we all become increasingly prone to physical ailments of some sort so not everyone will be capable of working longer, but some might be. Prerhaps rather than a fixed retirement age we need a more flexible one that is based upon physical and mental fitness?

[cromwell]

It is supposed to be about 6,000 years, having been created on the evening of 23 October 4004 BC. Of course this is suspect because the earth is a sphere (or pretty close to one anyway) so naturally, different parts of the planet would be at different angles to the sun, meaning in some places it would be morning, noon, night whatever.

However....

"Genesis 1

King James Version

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

So there you are. The earth was initially as flat as a pancake and everywhere had the same time!

Say what you like about God. He can be a tetchy old sod at times, but there is no catching Him out

 

[Borchester]

How old is the earth? past volcanic activity spewing crap in to the atmosphere in more modern times the crap spewed by Krakatoa.

It is supposed to be about 6,000 years, having been created on the evening of 23 October 4004 BC. Of course this is suspect because the earth is a sphere (or pretty close to one anyway) so naturally, different parts of the planet would be at different angles to the sun, meaning in some places it would be morning, noon, night whatever.

However....

"Genesis 1

King James Version

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

So there you are. The earth was initially as flat as a pancake and everywhere had the same time!

Say what you like about God. He can be a tetchy old sod at times, but there is no catching Him out

[cromwell]

Apologies. It was actually Borchester who said it. I confused him with you. Sorry.

Thanks Steve,but being a boring sod and you also telling me off about pulling smurfy you have proved my point....we do all make mistakes ,all of us and you had the good grace to say so.

Anyway back to the post as said I don't doubt it's getting warmer but I aint sure it's all down to man.

Some of the things that annoy me are, "this is the warmest summer since records began and it's down to global warming" and when did those records begin,200 to 300 years ago.

How old is the earth? past volcanic activity spewing crap in to the atmosphere in more modern times the crap spewed by Krakatoa.

Tbh being an apparent conspiracy theorist (I'm not) flat earth brexiteer the desperate problem facing man is population.

[srb7677]

I called it bloody rubbish? I don't recall that perhaps you'd be good enough to link where I said that.

Apologies. It was actually Borchester who said it. I confused him with you. Sorry.

[cromwell]

Of course the science can change, by the way. But it does so when scientists publish peer reviewed science backed by solid data. That it hasn't done so yet and almost all the data backs up the current thinking - or the "bloody rubbish" as you call it -  itself tends to be highly suggestive as to where the evidence currently stands. To counter that inevitably involves falling back on some sort of conspiracy theory to explain the stance of scientists.

But if the science does change on this issue it will be the result of peer reviewed evidence presented by fellow scientists after years of research. It will not change because a few bods on a politics forum with little in the way of science credentials at all, prefer not to believe it, citing as evidence dubious stuff on the internet found via google.

I repeat, if the science changes it will be as the result of new evidence found by scientists. Until or unless that happens, the rest of us would be wise to recognise that the scientists probably know more about the science than we do, and follow the scientists. If and when it changes, then we can take that on board.

I called it bloody rubbish? I don't recall that perhaps you'd be good enough to link where I said that.

The earth is flat you know, it's 10,000 yrs old and if there is to be an ice age or global warming it's in gods hands, this is the word of our lord, amen.

Oh you believe that Gerry,being an atheist I don't.......still you come from a country where church and state are as one.

How are things in places like Tuam Gerry where they buried illegitimate babies in a sewage tank and your govt had to be forced in to an investigation after denying along with yon Pope and his nuns none of it ever happened?

Still you're a forward looking country in your words and we look backwards,btw why is your govt hiding the result of that long and unfinished investigation for 30 years or have they had a rethink? 

[GerryT]

They had relatively little data back then and there were far fewer satellites up there taking measurements. They have much more data now.

We might well have been due for an ice age, but that was always little more than conjecture. Global warming would have put paid to that though.

The vast majority of scientists and most other people of importance have looked at the data and the evidence and concluded that man made climate change is a reality.

Yet you are one of the denialists around here who think you know more than them, backed only by some dubious data from a few mavericks, some of them in the pay of the worst emitters. that you find on the internet which is actually full of fake science. The reality of man made climate change is no more a religion than the reality of the theory of relativity, or quantum mechanics, until or unless something which works better comes along.. Let those scientists who have any doubts for whatever reason find the evidence and convince their peers. The rest of us lack the knowledge to challenge the scientific consensus and are idiots for trying. If it is wrong it will take scientists, not a few nobodies on an obscure politics forum, producing the data to prove that. Clearly they have not done so yet because scientists tend to follow the evidence and the vast majority believe the world is heating up and have the measurements to prove it.. Or do you imagine they are all involved in a massive conspiracy for some reason?

You lot choosing to deny the growing evidence, seeking out as back up some shite you have looked for on the internet hardly stands up against peer revieed scientific papers basede upon years of measuring and recording the evidence.

What are your credentials in this? On what basis do you assume to know more than the vast majority of the world's scientists? Finding a few selective things on the internet via google doesn't quite cut it I'm afraid.

My money is on denialists such as yourself being remembered as idiots by future generations.

The earth is flat you know, it's 10,000 yrs old and if there is to be an ice age or global warming it's in gods hands, this is the word of our lord, amen.

[GerryT]

They issued an additional 49 licenses after the spat with France. WOW!! 🤩 a whole 49.
I know where Jersey is and they certainly aren't in the U.K. or Britain as you postulate.
Why will you never just turn round and say you got it wrong?

Think you have it wrong. Jersey is very much tied to the UK, you are the one saying it's not in the UK, who said it was ?  It was the UK that has being looking after Jersey's foreign affairs, see my recent post and it was Johnson that stepped in and got the french their fishing licences. Why ? because France threatened the UK. Why did france threaten the UK, because they know the UK looks after matters foreign for Jersey, didn't you know that ?

[GerryT]

Told you what i think , that johnson will kick the can down the road and let stormont decide wether to continue with the protocol.

It was just interesting reading that the brits are thinking about triggering article 16 after cop 26 finishes , so as you say lets wait and see.

I suspect its all noise and bluster for the party faithfull and unionists throughout the uk to be seen to repair some of the damage with a border within their "country" , but maybe not.

Either way , the clock is ticking down to a border poll one way or the other so it will be interesting to see .

I don't think Johnson has a choice on the protocol, if he pulls out and persists with that position he risks sanctions from the EU and possibly the EU taking further retaliation. In the long run that would most likely get sorted but the damage would be much longer lasting. Relationships would be at a position that neither party would trust the other. Luckily the EU needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU. A border poll doesn't solve the problem, the liar Johnson fed the NI unionists with a bucket of poo after promising the sun, moon and stars. He's created more tension and division in the north.

i read that too , but dont forget many of the brits are unhappy with it , although many dont care either.

i love it either way , its a large stick to beat the tories with in scotland , brexit woz a uk vote so the uk has to leave and all that.

Johnson is hated with a passion in scotland , and when starmer has to come out and tell people he is accpeting brexit , well i generally fall off the chair laughing at the groans coming from whats left of scottish labour.

The ironic thing is most NI freight from the UK ships from GB to Ireland (Dublin) and from their by road to the north. It's quicker in many cases than sending it to NI direct. If a border goes up in Ireland then NI is screwed. 
M&S have recently looked to change from UK suppliers to Irish suppliers in Ireland, but even they have now figured out its better for them to stock their Irish stores with produce (foods stuff) from Irish & NI producers. They should have been doing this 4 yrs ago.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/m-s-to-step-up-local-food-sourcing-as-headwinds-hit-irish-business-1.4724555