Tory MP Sir David Amess dies after stabbing

[cromwell]

Mod Notice
Number of posts about driving a lorry and drivers moved to .....
off topic thread to the tower.

You can continue the discussion there.
Crom

[Borchester]

I think the problem with the internet is the fact different worlds collide on it toots.

People who may have lived fairly sheltered lives ( not making a personal point about anyone on here) suddenly come into contact with people more streetwise or from rougher areas.

The old with the young , the rich with the poor so on and so forth.

All of a sudden you are mixing in online communites with people you would never have had in your social circle , and you become shocked at what you hear and see.

Its not that the world is nastier or a worse place , its maybe many folk have been more removed from the nastier elements of life.

The world is a better place for people now than at most points in history , in terms of safety , education , health , the ability to travel and so much more. Some aspects of life might have regressed slightly , and the world isnt perfect , but its a far better place for many than at any point in human history.

I think part of it as well toots , and without sounding in any way patronising , is the fact every elderly generation in history has looked down on those coming behind and thought the world was becoming worse off.

I am cynical , but more than that im a realist , and sometimes i think its the element of realism thats missing in certain people.

David Amess was sadly killed by what looks to be some sort of islamic psychopath , but in reality its an extremely rare event sensationalised by the media to the point where people think this is becoming the norm.

It isnt .

Internet abuse isnt great , but its much less than rumour makes it. Look at the hysteria over nothing recently with fuel , or toilet rolls , or covid ,and maybe is it the fact the world isnt becoming a nastier place , but people just more and more cowed and timid , or easily excitable over what is in perspective extremely minor difficulties?

I think its a mixture of all of the above and more.

Plus, back in the day we were the ones causing the problems and were very tolerant of our own foilbles

[Thomas]

I don't have your cynicism Thomas. Perhaps it depends where we grew up or went to school I don't know. Perhaps I simply didn't come across what you did but we were safe walking down the street even in the big cities. I never saw guys fighting, road rage wasn't even a thing. There are so many aspects of everyday life that are different and yes, I feel more dangerous for my teenage grandkids, than it even was for my daughters or myself. Both of them have voiced concerns to me on this subject.

The cruel, unkind, unsocial aspects of life were no doubt there but it wasn't rammed in your face quite like it is now. We weren't confronted with every killing or evil deed from all around the world each day. I can't help it if this doesn't tally with your experiences but for me and I think my contemporaries, life was substantially gentler.

Do I wish it was still  the same? I think I would like my grandkids to have the life that I had. I don't think that's a rosy wish - just a kinder one than the world currently offers.

I think the problem with the internet is the fact different worlds collide on it toots.

People who may have lived fairly sheltered lives ( not making a personal point about anyone on here) suddenly come into contact with people more streetwise or from rougher areas.

The old with the young , the rich with the poor so on and so forth.

All of a sudden you are mixing in online communites with people you would never have had in your social circle , and you become shocked at what you hear and see.

Its not that the world is nastier or a worse place , its maybe many folk have been more removed from the nastier elements of life.

The world is a better place for people now than at most points in history , in terms of safety , education , health , the ability to travel and so much more. Some aspects of life might have regressed slightly , and the world isnt perfect , but its a far better place for many than at any point in human history.

I think part of it as well toots , and without sounding in any way patronising , is the fact every elderly generation in history has looked down on those coming behind and thought the world was becoming worse off.

I am cynical , but more than that im a realist , and sometimes i think its the element of realism thats missing in certain people.

David Amess was sadly killed by what looks to be some sort of islamic psychopath , but in reality its an extremely rare event sensationalised by the media to the point where people think this is becoming the norm.

It isnt .

Internet abuse isnt great , but its much less than rumour makes it. Look at the hysteria over nothing recently with fuel , or toilet rolls , or covid ,and maybe is it the fact the world isnt becoming a nastier place , but people just more and more cowed and timid , or easily excitable over what is in perspective extremely minor difficulties?

I think its a mixture of all of the above and more.

[cromwell]

Of course rumour and lies have always happened,the problem is the speed and breadth of the lies and hate.
Where you had local gossip it goes so much further.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58924168

[T00ts]

Thats always been the case though toots. Perhaps the spreading of false information might be travelling faster due to technology , but we can see episodes from history....nazi germany long before modern technology , were false info lies and nastiness spread in an extremely quick fashion.

I asked this question to cromwell , and i will ask you but when was this idyllic paradise of peace love and goodwill among men  , in your opinion , prior to the internet?

Genuinely interested toots.

I can't think of a period in my life , nor times before hand i have read about , where lies rumours and false information havent been spread.

I don't have your cynicism Thomas. Perhaps it depends where we grew up or went to school I don't know. Perhaps I simply didn't come across what you did but we were safe walking down the street even in the big cities. I never saw guys fighting, road rage wasn't even a thing. There are so many aspects of everyday life that are different and yes, I feel more dangerous for my teenage grandkids, than it even was for my daughters or myself. Both of them have voiced concerns to me on this subject.

The cruel, unkind, unsocial aspects of life were no doubt there but it wasn't rammed in your face quite like it is now. We weren't confronted with every killing or evil deed from all around the world each day. I can't help it if this doesn't tally with your experiences but for me and I think my contemporaries, life was substantially gentler.

Do I wish it was still  the same? I think I would like my grandkids to have the life that I had. I don't think that's a rosy wish - just a kinder one than the world currently offers.

[Thomas]

Frankly I wonder why your mother lets you out.

My mother is deid. Whats your excuse with your carer?

I don't doubt there are some very nasty areas of Farcebook but not the parts I use. I am choosy what parts I am member of.

The point being why are ther nasty parts of facebook if the removal of online anonymity is the magic bullet im told?

[papasmurf]

a five second google search shows as ever the guff you talk.

Frankly I wonder why your mother lets you out.  I don't doubt there are some very nasty areas of Farcebook but not the parts I use. I am choosy what parts I am member of.

[Thomas]

The parts you aren't obviously. I use a few local farcebook pages, some Breton ones, and a few that do not have webpages only Farcebook ones.

a five second google search shows as ever the guff you talk.

Why Facebook Can't Fix Itself
The platform is overrun with hate speech and disinformation. Does it actually want to solve the problem?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/19/why-facebook-cant-fix-itself

i have lost count of the amount of things not only i see and hear anecdotally , but articles telling us facebook has a major problem with hate speech and disinformation you tell us dont exist on the cozy feet parts you use.

[papasmurf]

christ knows what facebook you are using.

The parts you aren't obviously. I use a few local farcebook pages, some Breton ones, and a few that do not have webpages only Farcebook ones.

[Thomas]

I blame Joseph Goebbels and those who use his tactics.

propagandists like goebbels have existed all throughout history. He is merely a fairly recent name in a long line .

[Thomas]

I reluctantly started to use Farcebook recently and the parts of it I use are "policed" for bad language and no political content allowed.

christ knows what facebook you are using. Im a member of many different sub sites within facebook , groups , and both snp and alba  , yes scotland etc etc , and although there is the perception of moderation , the arguemtns are regualrly worse than this forum....the point being all who use it are accessible to the public , with personal information and photos etc etc.

This idyliic part of the web you think exists were no one disagrees with you and no one responds to your bad language or comments doesnt exist ......like much else its all in your head.

[papasmurf]

I can't think of a period in my life , nor times before hand i have read about , where lies rumours and false information havent been spread.

I blame Joseph Goebbels and those who use his tactics.

[Thomas]

I can't think how to get my thoughts across. That's not quite what I meant. I think my notion is of the sheer volume and how quickly false or true spreads. - but I am not clear in how to present it. Thanks for trying though!

Thats always been the case though toots. Perhaps the spreading of false information might be travelling faster due to technology , but we can see episodes from history....nazi germany long before modern technology , were false info lies and nastiness spread in an extremely quick fashion.

I asked this question to cromwell , and i will ask you but when was this idyllic paradise of peace love and goodwill among men  , in your opinion , prior to the internet?

Genuinely interested toots.

I cant think of a period in my life , nor times before hand i have read about , where lies rumours and false information havent been spread.

[papasmurf]

i have also said that on places like facebook , where by and large ther is no anonymity , the same language and behaviour prevails on there as bad as if not worse than on here.

I reluctantly started to use Farcebook recently and the parts of it I use are "policed" for bad language and no political content allowed.

[T00ts]

propaganda are we talking about? There is not  , and never has been any method of mankind used in spreading messages as you put it that doesnt involve propaganda , or the spin of the person supplying the message.

The internet hasnt invented spin. This has always existed as far back as scholastic research can penetrate.

A former forum member on this forum called Dave uk used to regularly argue , convincingly so , about the bible being one of the biggest pieces of propaganda in human history full of lies inventions and complete spin.

If i have misunderstood your meaning then fair enough. Im just heartily tired of people screaming about taking away online anonymity , but then arguing these rules shoudnt apply to them.

I can't think how to get my thoughts across. That's not quite what I meant. I think my notion is of the sheer volume and how quickly false or true spreads. - but I am not clear in how to present it. Thanks for trying though!