References for jobs

[Nick]

References for ex-employees usually only confirm the employee worked with the organisation in whatever position, from one date to leaving at next date. There are normally no observations on performance. Obviously, references from ex-colleagues are personal and should not be regarded as a corporate view. Academic and professional qualifications need to be supported by certificates with clear information as to where they can be verified...

It's generally not thought to be cricket to give someone a bad reference, in that situation I usually decline to comment, which says more than a bad reference.

[patman post]

References for ex-employees usually only confirm the employee worked with the organisation in whatever position, from one date to leaving at next date. There are normally no observations on performance. Obviously, references from ex-colleagues are personal and should not be regarded as a corporate view. Academic and professional qualifications need to be supported by certificates with clear information as to where they can be verified...

[cromwell]

I had to interview people and look at references,I always thought it was largely a waste of time and that you only really had an idea when people were in place doing the job.

[johnofgwent]

From my experience of interviewing applicants in the NHS, I found that everyone had managed to find two references, either glowing or not, but it was the interview stage which really sorted the wheat from the chaff.
One applicant had a perfectly completed application form and references, but face to face we found we could not communicate, owing to the fact she did not speak English. Rejected.

We learned more in 1 minute on a face to face than 10 minutes reading forms.

And if only one idiot had put me on the interview panel ....


At a certain client never mind who I was supervising a team of people one of whom had recently done a masters degree by taking one year off years after their first degree, another chose to do it as a part time OU style course over three years.

No problem with either of those.

But some tosser claimed on his CV he did the course part time in one year. He was, of course, lying his arse off. 

He was not on my team long. The two who had done the course properly soon winkled him out. What a lying shitbag 

[Barry]

From my experience of interviewing applicants in the NHS, I found that everyone had managed to find two references, either glowing or not, but it was the interview stage which really sorted the wheat from the chaff.
One applicant had a perfectly completed application form and references, but face to face we found we could not communicate, owing to the fact she did not speak English. Rejected.

We learned more in 1 minute on a face to face than 10 minutes reading forms.

[johnofgwent]

My problem now is most of those who could give me a reference are dead. I have taken to saying this in the application form, it certainly saves a lot of bother.

Too many jobs these days are filtered by machine against criteria set by the village idiot. Any who doubt this should try taking the psycho tests for the civil service. "Don't you mean psychometric" I hear you say. "Take the test and ask me again then" I reply.

There are only two occasions in my life when I felt references were worth a damn and I was the supplier (or not) in both cases.

The first was an occasion where I needed urgent assistance to get a server system built. And I mean application software as well as hardware.

I hired two guys straight out of uni facing a summer not knowing what the hell to do next as I had once been. On day 1 I sat them down in the rented office and explained we had three months to get this sorted and not a day longer. I went through at a high level what we had to do, and right through my main focus was on when money would arrive, and when it would leave, the company account.

I told them straight what the contract was worth, where and when expenditures in equipment, rent, rates, heating, lighting, office cleaning, salaries tax ni and vat was going. I showed them how I planned to divvy up the profit on the job three ways and how the tax man (John Majors Rottweilers as they were then) and NI man (for they were separate then) were robbing them.

They worked their arses off and we got the job done and as promised I split the proceeds and shook hands

I handed each a reference which basically said i needed two people for a short term to fulfil an order book item, took them on straight out of college over the summer for three months, they worked their butts off and between the three if us we got the job done and I'd recommend them both to anyone.

Ok maybe I toned it down a bit in the letter. But when the HR divot from Babcock I think it was rang me about one of them, they got the full and barely expurgated version. I did get a Christmas card from him saying thanks for the job and the reference which worked wonders. Which was nice.

No idea how the other chap got on.

The other time was less enjoyable. 

Blair had just taken action to stop people like me using clients to sponsor their clearance, effectively shutting my order book. Things had gotten a bit slow anyway with all the money being spent on Y2k and then the Euro and the time came to close down the company.

The week before I filed the closure and handed the final £12 ?? to Companies House in person, I'd had a letter.

From HMP Barlinee (is that how it's spelled ?)

This guy had been banged up for two years and was being released in a few months. He planned to get away from his recent past and move near us where he had relatives 

His parole officer had suggested he write to companies in the area asking if anyone was prepared to give him a chance to go straight...

Ok he might have been the biggest lying shitbag on the planet after Blair Mandelson and co

But the fact was it would have cost me nothing but a stamp and ten minutes to write back and say sorry I had nothing I could offer because I'd just wound the company up. 

But I did nothing. 

I didn't even bin or shred the letter. I was so cheesed off with what that bastard Blair had done to me and people like me I just turned off altogether. 

I'm still annoyed 20 plus years later I let that lying shitbag Blair get to me that much. 

Because to this day I feel I owed that guy in jail a response even though it was to say "sorry, pal" and I let him think I ignored him altogether.

[Nalaar]

Normally references are from previous employers though, not just some friends, and a good reference should fact based (attendance, responsibilities etc) not opinion based, which seems reasonable. 

[Barry]

My last job application in 2015 asked me for 2 references. I had just moved from abroad. Family cannot give references, for reasons that they might be swayed by their blood link. Friends, however, can give references assuming that they will be truthful.
I did find two people who gave me the required glowing reports.

Then there's the DBS check. I had been out of the country for nearly 2 decades. Previously I had security clearances. Now I had very little, and a suspicion that, in those missing years, I might have done some dirty deed. Eventually I was provided with a clean sheet.

I do wonder about the necessity or the validity of references in this modern world.
People should surely stand on their own merits, qualifications, previous jobs perhaps, school records if a first job.
I'm not complaining about DBS here at all.

I just wonder about the antiquated system of two referees. People used to carry around a couple of hand written letters from friends or a vicar, or a previous employer - but do they really make a difference. When I worked in the NHS, I worked in an office for some time, processing applications from people who had given references, which in no case ever disqualified them from the process.

My view is that the whole process is outdated and should be scrapped. People should stand on their own merits, not on anyone elses recommendation. Any thoughts?