Another big mistake.

[Nick]

That's what you said, I asked for examples and you came back with Amazon and pillar 2. Pillar 2 isn't yet in force, it's a global attempt to standardise corporate tax or a min floor on corporate tax AND to distribute profits to smaller countries that multinationals operate in , to tackle the advantages multinationals take advantage of where different countries have different tax systems. It's not a UK alone thing, it's been driven globally with 130 countries representing 90% of global GDP are involved. It's for the future, it's not yet in force, where's your current examples.

So your waffling when you say Don't you understand that countries apply CT differently. Some countries tax where the corporation is setup and others tax where the work is done. This allows corporations to shift monies from one jurisdiction to another to avoid paying any CT.  Also if say country A CT is 12% and country B is 27% then corporations are enticed to open up branches in country A. And you have some countries giving tax rebates or funds through regional development programmes and all other sorts of programmes. But that's all very different to what you claimed.

You said, in your condescending tone, that I'd never know that corporation tax can be negotiated if you're big enough. So give some examples, where a company has negotiated a special bespoke corporation tax for their organisation. Because Amazon doesn't in any way fit that description.

Again you're putting words in my mouth. I said that big corporations make CT agreements with HMRC, not once did I say I knew what that deal was, so like I said, we will never know what deal if any Shell has negotiated. 

I have contracts with Amazon and have been to Seattle to have meetings, I know they have deals with HMRC, I just don't know what it is. 

[T00ts]

So, dare I suggest that what's actually happenned is

1) a lot of noise was made by people shouting if you vote leave we will piss off, in hope they might frighten people not to vote leave

2) on the night lots voted to leave, including anyone who heard Cameron state categorically that a vote to leave would obviously mean leaving the SM as no other action would make sense .... And

3) when they woke up and found their threats had been ignored, some decided they were going to f**k off, but others looked at the pros and cons and chose, for the moment, to stay ....

It could of course be simply a long term view. With climate change as it's foretold their Dutch HQ is likely to disappear beneath the waves sooner.  

[Nick]

With 272 listings there is bound to be some with changed plans or even failed plans, not that Nick could discredit the list, nor you with your personal insult on the man.
What ever happened to attack the post not the poster.  All that people (not all) do here is slag off the poster.  Don't you have any comment on the post. Or are you waiting for me to make a spelling or grammar mistake.

The discredit lands firmly with you Gerry not the list. You're the one that put this list forward as proof companies were leaving the U.K. after Brexit, now you're pointing to them opening other offices and having some production in China. You've once again moved the goalposts. I'll have 8 hours tonight, might just go through the lot and see if any have actually LEFT the U.K. due to Brexit. 

[johnofgwent]

1st on your list. Smiffy's hasn't moved it's headquarters.


2 on your list. Al Mac headquarters still in U.K. 
3 on your list. Lloyds of London (clues in the name). Still in London


104 on your list. Latimer Trend's was millions in debt in 2018.

144 on your list. Nissan to move Ariya truck production to Japan. Afraid not, it's gone to Sunderland.
https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2021/07/01/nissan-confirms-sunderland-plant-s-future-with-gigafactory-and-ev-production-plan

Im not bothering to look at anymore, old Digby has clearly concocted a wish list and I assume as usual you just believe any old crap you're told.

So, dare I suggest that what's actually happenned is

1) a lot of noise was made by people shouting if you vote leave we will piss off, in hope they might frighten people not to vote leave

2) on the night lots voted to leave, including anyone who heard Cameron state categorically that a vote to leave would obviously mean leaving the SM as no other action would make sense .... And

3) when they woke up and found their threats had been ignored, some decided they were going to f**k off, but others looked at the pros and cons and chose, for the moment, to stay ....

[cromwell]

With 272 listings there is bound to be some with changed plans or even failed plans, not that Nick could discredit the list, nor you with your personal insult on the man.
What ever happened to attack the post not the poster.  All that people (not all) do here is slag off the poster.  Don't you have any comment on the post. Or are you waiting for me to make a spelling or grammar mistake.

Slag off the poster? Can you please point to where in my post I quoted one of your posts....I was making an observation about Digby.
Of course you would never attack another poster would you? Or an individual named in a post or even a whole nation?

In true brexiteer fashion, we are back in blazing saddles land, the sheriff holding the gun to his head, keeping the crowd at bay or he shoots himself

That's in reply to a post from Barry

And this to me,you of course wouldn't insult our PM or a previous one and the men of the British army

It's just ironic that the UK like to call their French neighbours "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys", after the UK bombs them to bits at Mers-el-Kébir and then the UK runs away at Dunkirk as the French protect them as they leave the battle. I never knew that was a Churchill order just days into the battle, so that he could accept a truce with Germany, you learn something new every day.

It's no wonder Johnson models himself on Churchill, they came from the same mould

There are others too where you slag off the Brits ( well English really) and individuals 

Self righteous and hypocritical at the same time.

[GerryT]

That is something that you'll never know cause contrary to popular believe Corporation Tax can be negotiated if you're big enough.

That's what you said, I asked for examples and you came back with Amazon and pillar 2. Pillar 2 isn't yet in force, it's a global attempt to standardise corporate tax or a min floor on corporate tax AND to distribute profits to smaller countries that multinationals operate in , to tackle the advantages multinationals take advantage of where different countries have different tax systems. It's not a UK alone thing, it's been driven globally with 130 countries representing 90% of global GDP are involved. It's for the future, it's not yet in force, where's your current examples.

So your waffling when you say 

Pillar 2 is being brought in to set a floor on CT. Why would they be bringing in floor of 15% if there are no special deals?

Don't you understand that countries apply CT differently. Some countries tax where the corporation is setup and others tax where the work is done. This allows corporations to shift monies from one jurisdiction to another to avoid paying any CT.  Also if say country A CT is 12% and country B is 27% then corporations are enticed to open up branches in country A. And you have some countries giving tax rebates or funds through regional development programmes and all other sorts of programmes. But that's all very different to what you claimed.

You said, in your condescending tone, that I'd never know that corporation tax can be negotiated if you're big enough. So give some examples, where a company has negotiated a special bespoke corporation tax for their organisation. Because Amazon doesn't in any way fit that description.

[GerryT]

Digby,yes. I remember him Dan Dares sidekick from Wigan and rather rotund so he did eat all the pies.

Bit a of a bumbler off in space with Gerry and the eu.

With 272 listings there is bound to be some with changed plans or even failed plans, not that Nick could discredit the list, nor you with your personal insult on the man.
What ever happened to attack the post not the poster.  All that people (not all) do here is slag off the poster.  Don't you have any comment on the post. Or are you waiting for me to make a spelling or grammar mistake.

[cromwell]

Digby,yes. I remember him Dan Dares sidekick from Wigan and rather rotund so he did eat all the pies.

Bit a of a bumbler off in space with Gerry and the eu.

[GerryT]

Actually, the Irish government decided not to collect the tax and in 2020 the EU courts decided not to pursue the matter.

Jesus Gerry, unless you are planning to put on a pair of falsies and go after a job pulling pints in a Father Ted pub, I can't see why you are into pretending to be Irish. But if you are going to carry on with your curious obsession, get a copy of the Irish Times or some such. If you go into the Sainsbury's local at Catford station you can read it free and for nothing.

Wrong again, national tax policy is not an EU competence, the Eu had no right to tell Ireland it had not charged Apple, under review it was shown that Apple had not violated Irish tax law in the 2004-2014 13b case. Quite a different story that what you're spewing out. But lets run with your story, why did the EU just decide to drop it, your story is the EU courts unilaterally decided just to drop it ? is that it ?

Multinationals do pay tax in Ireland, 80% of our tax take, they also account for 10% of employment and indirectly pay 50% of all salary tax.

[GerryT]

1st on your list. Smiffy's hasn't moved it's headquarters.


2 on your list. Al Mac headquarters still in U.K. 
3 on your list. Lloyds of London (clues in the name). Still in London


104 on your list. Latimer Trend's was millions in debt in 2018.

144 on your list. Nissan to move Ariya truck production to Japan. Afraid not, it's gone to Sunderland.
https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2021/07/01/nissan-confirms-sunderland-plant-s-future-with-gigafactory-and-ev-production-plan

Im not bothering to look at anymore, old Digby has clearly concocted a wish list and I assume as usual you just believe any old crap you're told.

From Smiffys site:
Our new, larger EU facility in Neuss now holds much more stock, offering superior levels of availability.
Our Chinese Warehouse delivers directly into our European Warehouse, further improving lead-times for stock without touching the UK ports.
Visit our fantastic EU Showroom conveniently located in Amsterdam
https://trade.smiffys.com/uk_gbp_en/smiffys-news/post/brexit-statement-it-s-business-as-normal-with-smiffys
Smiffys owner said he was moving the HQ to the EU, not a Digby wish lish, obviously smiffy has changed plans, but it is now manufacturing in China and shipping direct to the EU, with EU employees and distribution, thanks for the Jobs smiffys.

Number 2 on the list is still correct. ALMAC opened a manufacturing facility in Dundalk (Ireland) the report said the HQ would remain in Craigavon (NI or UK). So why list this ?  It's a company moving Jobs, salary tax and corporate tax to Ireland. Not to mention the spin off jobs created by such a company opening.

Number 3 is still correct. Lloyds said they were opening a subsidiary to the EU, they also moved operations to Dublin, thanks very much. No body said they were closing in London.

Number 104 is still correct. The company states sales drop off due to brexit as the companies downfall. Obviously EU customers post 2016 vote in the UK weren't waiting for the 2021 departure and switched to an EU printing firm, so yes I am sure they were in trouble in 2018 and had to close in 2019. 

Number 144 ?. That article is about Sunderland getting an injection to manufacture batteries, electric cars and renewable energy, no mention of making the Ariya for the EU market. 144 on the list is about the cancelling of the production of the Ariya for EU sales in the UK, I presume that has happened so this story is true, the UK lost the production of the Ariya for EU sales. What is interesting is the EV36Zero facility, is getting investment from the UK Govt, I had a little look there, the UK govt handed Nissan £61m in 2016 and a reported £100m for this latest venture plus cut price land and tax relief. That's fine but the original story about the Ariya still stands.
https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/does-nissan-provide-a-model-for-levelling-up/

What this shows is your wrong again and the digby list is still good, even after your forensic examination, just keep saying to yourself, must try harder.

[Nick]

Yes I do, but if your looking for a summary there's loads in here if you want to route them out:

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/regular-features/the-digby-jones-index-2/

I'm sure you'll find one that you can argue over, but with 272 examples does this not show that companies have left the UK because of Brexit.  You could start the list of companies moving to the UK and we'll keep it updated, stick Shell in there with zero jobs and maybe some tax revenue.

1st on your list. Smiffy's hasn't moved it's headquarters. 


2 on your list. Al Mac headquarters still in U.K.  
3 on your list. Lloyds of London (clues in the name). Still in London


104 on your list. Latimer Trend's was millions in debt in 2018. 

144 on your list. Nissan to move Ariya truck production to Japan. Afraid not, it's gone to Sunderland. 
https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2021/07/01/nissan-confirms-sunderland-plant-s-future-with-gigafactory-and-ev-production-plan

Im not bothering to look at anymore, old Digby has clearly concocted a wish list and I assume as usual you just believe any old crap you're told. 

[Thomas]

Actually, the Irish government decided not to collect the tax and in 2020 the EU courts decided not to pursue the matter.

Gerry doesnt care borkie. Remember when i named a prominent dublin irish politician , and gerry had to log off the forum to google who he was?

Its a tough life posting anti brexit propaganda from an ivory tower in kent to uneducated plebs like us on an obscure politics forum.

I dont know what was worse for gerry in 2016 , the uk voting to leave the EU , or the fact the uneducated plebs didnt fall for his propaganda.

[Borchester]

Again you get it totally wrong. That is a tax bill put on Apple, the money might go to USA or IRL or to the individual countries where the work was done. It's in the courts for a decision, personally I'd like to see it coming to Ireland.

Actually, the Irish government decided not to collect the tax and in 2020 the EU courts decided not to pursue the matter.

Jesus Gerry, unless you are planning to put on a pair of falsies and go after a job pulling pints in a Father Ted pub, I can't see why you are into pretending to be Irish. But if you are going to carry on with your curious obsession, get a copy of the Irish Times or some such. If you go into the Sainsbury's local at Catford station you can read it free and for nothing.

[Nick]

2020 Amazon paid zero corporate tax in the EU (including UK), because according to them they made a trading loss, so no corporate tax

Pillar 2 comes into force in 2023. And this is not an example of a company getting a special deal, it's open to any company that fits the criteria, no special deal.

Have you any real examples of where a company has negotiated a lower corporate tax rate, what you did wasn't an example.

Pillar 2 is being brought in to set a floor on CT. Why would they be bringing in floor of 15% if there are no special deals?

[GerryT]

And Apple for another. The Irish government gave the company a 11.6 billion pound tax break in 2020. Shame really. Apple + have been screening the Foundation series and it has sod all to do with Asimov's taut masterpiece, but there you are. These multinationals get away with murder. I am downloading the shows for nothing and they are still overpriced.

Again you get it totally wrong. That is a tax bill put on Apple, the money might go to USA or IRL or to the individual countries where the work was done. It's in the courts for a decision, personally I'd like to see it coming to Ireland.