EU report claims Brits 'didn't know what they were doing' when voting for Brexit

[Nick]

I though you had, must be mixing you up with someone else.

No. The 5b rebate was immediately deducted, the UK never sent that money. That 5b could be spent on cocaine for all the EU cared. It was never 350m a week.
The 350b a week was on top of planned increases, a windfall, or are you saying the NHS doesn't need any more money, it's fully funded.
That is all waffle, the key is the bus was a lie, people believed it and saw the EU as a waste of 350m a week, that lie helped the leave side to win. Everyone knows this, no point in trying to defend it.

Just using grammar the bus couldn't have been a lie because it was a question. 

[cromwell]

I though you had, must be mixing you up with someone else.

No. The 5b rebate was immediately deducted, the UK never sent that money. That 5b could be spent on cocaine for all the EU cared. It was never 350m a week.
The 350b a week was on top of planned increases, a windfall, or are you saying the NHS doesn't need any more money, it's fully funded.
That is all waffle, the key is the bus was a lie, people believed it and saw the EU as a waste of 350m a week, that lie helped the leave side to win. Everyone knows this, no point in trying to defend it.

Absolute cobblers,your evidence for this is?  (Non existent )

I know no one who voted on the basis of the bus advert.

[GerryT]

I never mentioned Farage distancing himself from anything!!
As John said, the £350 million was gross, the rebates where designated to specific stuff by the EU so could not be used as the U.K. wanted so in all intense and purpose it was £350 million. And as you've been told umpteen times, the increase to the NHS now is more than that figure so stop the games.

I though you had, must be mixing you up with someone else.

No. The 5b rebate was immediately deducted, the UK never sent that money. That 5b could be spent on cocaine for all the EU cared. It was never 350m a week.
The 350b a week was on top of planned increases, a windfall, or are you saying the NHS doesn't need any more money, it's fully funded.
That is all waffle, the key is the bus was a lie, people believed it and saw the EU as a waste of 350m a week, that lie helped the leave side to win. Everyone knows this, no point in trying to defend it.

[Borchester]

Who is "we"?

I thought you lived in the Irish Republic

[Streetwalker]

We didn't have a contract with the EU, we were in a club which had rules. When you leave a club you stop paying and the rules no longer apply, especially as there are no persistent clauses. As SW has told you, it was article 50 that kept us tied to the EU by virtue of the fact we agreed to leave a certain way. That was the only contract we had.

You don't understand that we could have just said stick your deal and walked away, removing all EU law from our law. You can deny it all you want but somethings are true whether you believe them or not.

I think the better way for a smooth transition would have been to walk away but keep all EU law on the books . It would have been a good starting point for an open free trade deal and  having alignment would have speeded up the process . We could ditch the rules and regs  we didn't want  as we went along (day one leave the SM and CU ) streamlining the agreement to be ratified when everything was agreed .
But .....thats assuming the EU would play ball which given the way they operate is probably a bit far fetched .

Best just to leave and trade with the rest of the world and pretend they are not there ....Unless they ask nicely 

[Nick]

What ?

If the UK just walked away, it would still be a party to the agreements, and as such could be challenged under them. Do you know anything about contracts and termination, you run a business, surely you understand the implication of defaulting on a contract, no communication and just walking away. The contract remains if you do that.

Art5o is the contract termination process, it's unilateral and the UK can trigger it without any consultation with the EU. It IS the "walk away" solution.

Binding the UK to the NI protocol and the CTA agreement was all Johnsons idea, he came up with these plans, their his.


Now what's wrong about that Nick

We didn't have a contract with the EU, we were in a club which had rules. When you leave a club you stop paying and the rules no longer apply, especially as there are no persistent clauses. As SW has told you, it was article 50 that kept us tied to the EU by virtue of the fact we agreed to leave a certain way. That was the only contract we had. 

You don't understand that we could have just said stick your deal and walked away, removing all EU law from our law. You can deny it all you want but somethings are true whether you believe them or not. 

[Thomas]

He did, Art50 does not lead to the NI protocol and having EU courts. That was a UK choice, not what had to happen.

If all the UK wanted to do was leave, then trigger Art50, agree the loose ends and sail into the sunset, or am I wrong, as you elude to false arguments, but your careful not to mention any, why ?

you have been wrong many times through the arguments  , people have corrected you , you have tried to shout them down , misrepresent them and use idiotically false argumetns and straw men.

Like i said , streetwalker basically summed up the situation and im happy he has more than answered you as has everyone else.

We all knew what we were voting for , i have said many a time now over the years why i voted as i did , i knew before the votes were even cast what way streetwalker and many others on here would vote , and streetwalker and brexiters won.

So we are out , no going back in or tieing ourselves to the eu , and there you go gerry.

You have been on here waffling now for a number of years , and i dont really know how many times we can re argue , re invent , and re rake over the same arguments  , most of us still hold the same views ( i went from a lukewarm remainer to leave) so really its groundhog day every time you put pinky to keyboard in a huff.

You`ll make yoursell ill gerry with your obsession. 

[Nick]

The 350m a week was no mistake, as Nick said even Farage distanced himself from that. And it WAS a lie, the UK never sent 350m a week, rebates and deductions happened BEFORE a penny was sent.
The full bus was a lie, in the style of Clinton "Inever had sex with that woman,,,,Monaca lewensky.  The bus saying "lets fund our NHS instead" with later claims that the 350m a week wasn't solely for the NHS, but that wasn't clearly outlined before the vote. Lie after Lie John. The bus WAS and still is a lie. It was Dominic Cummings, Boris best mate at the time, well paid by Johnson as it happens, that masterminded the bus. So it wasn't Johnson, it was Cummings, that's great John. Johnson has made a carrear over decades of lying, why you would doubt he had a hand in this ?  because he told you so

I never mentioned Farage distancing himself from anything!!
As John said, the £350 million was gross, the rebates where designated to specific stuff by the EU so could not be used as the U.K. wanted so in all intense and purpose it was £350 million. And as you've been told umpteen times, the increase to the NHS now is more than that figure so stop the games. 

[GerryT]

Oh dear.

I just read the spectator article.

It says the 350m a week was a lie and it was inflated !!
It then tries to imply that lying is just part of the game, sorry, it's not. It was a lie plain and simple.

The bus said we [highlight]SEND[/highlight] the EU 350m a week. The UK doesn't send that amount, the 5b rebate is applied [highlight]BEFORE[/highlight] a penny is sent. Then there is also the money returned bringing it down by a further 4.5b to a net figure of 9.4b. The article stops there but the UK also receives research grants to the tune of approx 2.3b, bringing the Net figure to about 7.1b or 136.6b a week. But you prefer the lie, Oh dear.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

[johnofgwent]

The 350m a week was no mistake, as Nick said even Farage distanced himself from that. And it WAS a lie, the UK never sent 350m a week, rebates and deductions happened BEFORE a penny was sent.
The full bus was a lie, in the style of Clinton "Inever had sex with that woman,,,,Monaca lewensky.  The bus saying "lets fund our NHS instead" with later claims that the 350m a week wasn't solely for the NHS, but that wasn't clearly outlined before the vote. Lie after Lie John. The bus WAS and still is a lie. It was Dominic Cummings, Boris best mate at the time, well paid by Johnson as it happens, that masterminded the bus. So it wasn't Johnson, it was Cummings, that's great John. Johnson has made a carrear over decades of lying, why you would doubt he had a hand in this ?  because he told you so

Oh dear.

[GerryT]

I dont think streetwalker has got anything wrong. He has more than rebutted your weak arguments , while all you seem to do in  is reinvent , re run and re write the events betwenn 2016 to now to suit your false arguments.

He did, Art50 does not lead to the NI protocol and having EU courts. That was a UK choice, not what had to happen.

If all the UK wanted to do was leave, then trigger Art50, agree the loose ends and sail into the sunset, or am I wrong, as you elude to false arguments, but your careful not to mention any, why ?

[Thomas]

Correct, wrong and wrong.

I dont think streetwalker has got anything wrong. He has more than rebutted your weak arguments , while all you seem to do in  is reinvent , re run and re write the events betwenn 2016 to now to suit your false arguments.

[GerryT]

You have no clue what you're talking about.

What ?

If the UK just walked away, it would still be a party to the agreements, and as such could be challenged under them. Do you know anything about contracts and termination, you run a business, surely you understand the implication of defaulting on a contract, no communication and just walking away. The contract remains if you do that.

Art5o is the contract termination process, it's unilateral and the UK can trigger it without any consultation with the EU. It IS the "walk away" solution.

Binding the UK to the NI protocol and the CTA agreement was all Johnsons idea, he came up with these plans, their his.


Now what's wrong about that Nick

[GerryT]

For fecks sake Gerry leaving under art 50 tied us to the EU before we had even left . It led to the WA ,the NI protocol and left us under European courts .

Correct, wrong and wrong. The only provision under Art50 was the settlement, tidy up the lose ends, peoples rights, payments, that sort of thing - that was the WA. The agreement that terminated the relationship and sorted out as much of the messy bits that could be. Once that was done the UK could have walked away, it threatened to do it every other week, as if the EU was terrified that the UK would do that. There was no need for a NI protocol or EU courts. They were Johnsons idea, remember he dumped Mays deal and introduced the NI protocol, that was all Johnson. That tied a part of the UK to EU courts and it was also Johnsons oven ready CTA agreement on future trade, which as yet there hasn't been much opposition, but when it comes, remember that was Johnsons deal.
But the UK could have walked away.

You asked me what UKIP would have done ,i told you and your reply is ''The UK could have triggered art 50 and moved on '' Moved on to what ?  The same as what we have got ,a fecking balls up .

Exactly, you could have gone no deal, that's not CTA, no NI protocol.
You would still have the GFA, which is a totally different thing and is binding on the UK, leaving the EU is a unilateral decision only by each member state, leaving an international agreement is not a unilateral decision, especially when your the smaller party to the agreement.

Your talking shite about Farage ,you dont know what he said and when he said it , your timeline is like a fecking episode of the time tunnel .

He said nothing about that bus before the vote, but within days he distanced himself from it, as he knew full well it wasn't the sort of lie you could sweep under the carpet. The big red lie will be around for a long time.

[GerryT]

Bullshit.

There WAS a £350m a week because that was the gross figure before the rebate. The figures your side bullshitted however ....

But the figure was set by a demented SPAD who was sod all to do with Boris, at a time Boris was a fence sitting remoaner.

That Boris did not change the number when he hopped up onto the bus after it had started going round was a fact I threw at him the moment he stepped off the bus in Ross On Wye. His admission the deed had been done and it was what it was made it to Newsnight, sadly by they clipped my return that his failure to correct the lie made him remains greatest asset.

But the fact is it was NOT his lie. The arse who came up.with it was quietly thrown off the bus, metaphorically speaking... He rocked up to my client, later employer, to try and earn a crust in my line of work, and failed at that endeavour miserably.

The 350m a week was no mistake, as Nick said even Farage distanced himself from that. And it WAS a lie, the UK never sent 350m a week, rebates and deductions happened BEFORE a penny was sent.
The full bus was a lie, in the style of Clinton "Inever had sex with that woman,,,,Monaca lewensky.  The bus saying "lets fund our NHS instead" with later claims that the 350m a week wasn't solely for the NHS, but that wasn't clearly outlined before the vote. Lie after Lie John. The bus WAS and still is a lie. It was Dominic Cummings, Boris best mate at the time, well paid by Johnson as it happens, that masterminded the bus. So it wasn't Johnson, it was Cummings, that's great John. Johnson has made a carrear over decades of lying, why you would doubt he had a hand in this ?  because he told you so