Can Russia be stopped?

[Sheepy]

Take your pick


https://www.google.com/search?q=putin+15+years+jail+for+fake+news&oq=putin+15+years+jail+for+fake+news&aqs=chrome..69i57.15115j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

No show me where it says you get 15 years for saying it is a war, it says telling lies about the Russian military which would be seen as anti-Russian propaganda it doesn't say if you say we are at war you get 15 years. When Vlad himself has ordered the military into Ukraine. A lot of NeoLiberal fear mongering as usual.

[T00ts]

Where does it say that is a fact? you made that up.

Take your pick


https://www.google.com/search?q=putin+15+years+jail+for+fake+news&oq=putin+15+years+jail+for+fake+news&aqs=chrome..69i57.15115j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Sheepy]

The fact is anyone who calls it an invasion or war will get 15 years.

Where does it say that is a fact? you made that up. 

[Groo]

No, he isn't he is a comedian who has done comedy films, where he was voted as President. No where have no I said there is no war? you don't work for the BBC by any chance?

Oh hang on, another poster said 15 years for telling the truth, you responded with no, for telling lies.

The fact is anyone who calls it an invasion or war will get 15 years. Your response above indicates anyone calling it an invasion or war is lying. Help me out here, how else is anyone to take your response?

[Sheepy]

I'll leave others to judge.

They can read for themselves I guess, anyway Vlad must rate you as you got an answer. 

[T00ts]

Why you said how terrible it was for Russians having Martial law declared by a madman. You first.
I haven't even mentioned trying to talk us into a no fly zone.

I'll leave others to judge.

[Sheepy]

I don't think that's necessary! So take it back!

Why you said how terrible it was for Russians having Martial law declared by a madman. You first.
I haven't even mentioned trying to talk us into a no fly zone.

[Thomas]

Craig murrray on freedom of speech and russia today.......










Craig Murray -


@CraigMurrayOrg


In 2014, when Russia annexed Crimea, I was invited on Russia Today to discuss it. I warned them I thought it was against international law, and that is what I would say. RT said "fine, we like to broadcast differing views". And they did.

[T00ts]

Anyway, I don't know why I should tell them, tell them yourself, Toots spreads fake news.








15:58
Borodyanka is around 60km from Kyiv.

Putin warns countries against imposing no-fly zone
15:42
Vladimir Putin has said that Moscow will consider any country that sought to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine as having entered the conflict.
"Any movement in this direction will be considered by us as participation in an armed conflict by that country," the Russian president said during a meeting with Aeroflot employees reported by Reuters.
Imposing a no-fly zone would have "colossal and catastrophic consequences not only for Europe but also the whole world", Putin said.
Putin also dismissed rumours that Moscow plans to declare martial law. "Martial law should only be introduced in cases where there is external aggression ... we are not experiencing that at the moment and I hope we won't," he said.

I don't think that's necessary! So take it back!

[Thomas]

Interesting article by craig murray....




Back in the days when I was one of the British state's more efficient functionaries, I spoke with British officers who had been in Russia during the Yeltsin period, when they had been able to get up close and effectively inventory the Russian armed forces. (For those who don't know, I was First Secretary at the British Embassy in Warsaw, I was British Ambassador in Tashkent, and I was taught to be fluent in both Polish and Russian, which included living in St Petersburg as a language student while Ambassador designate).
What we (as I was then a cog in this machine) found was that the strength of the Soviet Union's Red Army had been massively exaggerated in all our intelligence estimates, on which defence strategy had been based for decades. We had over-estimated the numbers, the mobility and above all the capability of Soviet weapons systems. Much of it was barely functional; the problems with both quality and maintenance were not just the product of the disintegration of the Soviet system, they evidently went back decades.
One interesting thing – and I recall discussing this with a British Brigadier General at the Polish exercise area in Drawsko – was that years of military planning had involved scenarios which revolved around successive defensive lines in Western Europe and eschewed any kind of counter-attacking strategy. That conversation had started because, when the British Army first started exercising on the former Warsaw pact training area at Drawsko, we had to strengthen bridges in Eastern Germany and Western Poland in order to get our tanks there.
We were musing that this had never been considered a problem in cold war strategy, because it was presumed our tanks would never go forward. We now knew they could have, which was interesting the analysts.
The truth, of course, was that it had always been in the interest of MI6, the Defence Intelligence Service, the British armed forces, of their American counterparts, and of all their NATO counterparts, massively to exaggerate the strength of the Red Army. Because the greater the perceived enemy, the more we needed to throw money at MI6, the Defence Intelligence Service, the British armed forces, their American counterparts, and at all their NATO counterparts.
Nothing has changed. Exaggerating the strength of the nominated enemy is still very much in their interest

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/03/the-universal-boosting-of-putin/

[Sheepy]

Anyway, I don't know why I should tell them, tell them yourself, Toots spreads fake news.








15:58
Borodyanka is around 60km from Kyiv.

Putin warns countries against imposing no-fly zone
15:42
Vladimir Putin has said that Moscow will consider any country that sought to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine as having entered the conflict.
"Any movement in this direction will be considered by us as participation in an armed conflict by that country," the Russian president said during a meeting with Aeroflot employees reported by Reuters.
Imposing a no-fly zone would have "colossal and catastrophic consequences not only for Europe but also the whole world", Putin said.
Putin also dismissed rumours that Moscow plans to declare martial law. "Martial law should only be introduced in cases where there is external aggression ... we are not experiencing that at the moment and I hope we won't," he said.

[Thomas]

Dunno, but if I was the Westminster party I wouldn't be milking it much longer because we are coming for revenge.

Well lets be honest sheep , none of them are coming out of this with any credibility are they? The snp , labour and tory are coming across as nothing more than usefull idiots for aggresive american foreign policy , while at the same time 37 tory mps and a raft of high profile labour figures like brown mandelson and gardiner to name but a few are tainted with" dirty" russian and chinese money.

[Sheepy]

I think at some point , "the west" is going to have to sit down and negotiate with putin and sort this out. If not , and it escalates , then we are all done , so if it doesnt change anything , then we have problems.

In conventional terms , i dont think ukraine can militarily beat russia. I think nato could , but it would escalate long before that.

Dunno, but if I was the Westminster party I wouldn't be milking it much longer because we are coming for revenge.

[Thomas]

Ok I have read that and it makes a lot of sense. How it really changes anything I am not sure.

I think at some point , "the west" is going to have to sit down and negotiate with putin and sort this out. If not , and it escalates , then we are all done , so if it doesnt change anything , then we have problems.

In conventional terms , i dont think ukraine can militarily beat russia. I think nato could , but it would escalate long before that.

[Thomas]

I think the Genie is too far out of the bottle to simply try and put it back in.
Primarily because it is too simple to just call this an invasion.
There is plenty of support for the Russians in the East of the Country and the local milita's of Donetsk and Lughansk are doing a lot of the heavy fighting in that corner, (which is where the vast majority of the heavy fighting is actually taking place)
We also know that in areas where the pro Russian separatists were crushed in 2014 before they were able to properly organise, they have reappeared as partisans and often referred to by the Ukrainians as "saboteurs".

When the Russians have taken the bits they want, they will be able to withdraw as they will have plenty of men from the East of the Country to look after security.

Aye it seems an extremely complicated situation , and yet again i wonder how the hell did we get to this point? How do we get out of it , and allow world leaders and those on both sides the ability to save face without causing yet more death and destruction?

It seems clear to me  , the ukrainian people are merely being used and duped. So many factors dont add up .

We seem to be in the middle of a massive disinformation war  , and i personally am struggling to keep up with events and the twists and turns.