What is really happening in the Ukraine Conflict?

[B0ycey]

Honestly you really do have to laugh about these "western sanctions"...





Ed Conway


@EdConwaySky

·
Mar 26

There's another paradox here: even as Europe imposes unprecedented sanctions on Russia, it is funnelling billions of euros back to Moscow in exchange for gas. As this chart shows, gas pipeline flows ROSE, not fell, post invasion. The realpolitik no one wants to discuss:

Perhaps this is the real race Thomas. Europe are buying the gas in whilst they can and Russia are building the interconnect pipe to ship to China. Europe won't be given priority then. It was interesting reading an article about Western businesses in Russia the other day. They are asking not to be nationalised despite having to leave because ultimately they want to return. I would laugh at the sanctions if things weren't so serious. The West enacted them and are now looking at ways to bypass them despite being the ones who ordered them. Plenty of French companies seem to have no issue with staying in Russia and made a strong case that the only people hurt are the general population and not those the sanctions target so why should they leave? I am beginning to think had we opened up dialogue up properly and addressed Russias security concerns, this war would be over by now. I only write that because when you see charts like that, it seems Russia are treating us as business as usual (so not hostile), and we are like a headless chicken who seems to think sanctions will change Russias course of action. Will we ever learn that this story has two sides that need to be addressed and not ours alone?

[Thomas]

Honestly you really do have to laugh about these "western sanctions"...





Ed Conway


@EdConwaySky

·
Mar 26

There's another paradox here: even as Europe imposes unprecedented sanctions on Russia, it is funnelling billions of euros back to Moscow in exchange for gas. As this chart shows, gas pipeline flows ROSE, not fell, post invasion. The realpolitik no one wants to discuss:

[Thomas]

Peter hitchens also has interesting takes on the ukraine war , and once again shows how complex the issues and  events there are rather than what is being portrayed i n the west.


Zelensky was elected because of his pledge to bring peace to the east but he was hampered and intimidated from day 1 by shadowy Oligarch's backed by far right muscle who had intention of compromise.

Hitchens replies..

This is quite true

. Banderovtsy red and black flags prominent in demonstrations against Zelensky's attempt to get peace, also openly defied by Azov soldiers. In those days they called him 'Monica Zelensky'

[Sheepy]

if god forbid there is a nuclear war , you can bet anything the yanks will be involved in starting it.

Give them time, they are doing their best. Even Cromwell has noticed. Trouble with the Yanks they think they run the world behind a safety net, which is becoming increasingly less so. Those bio weapons are biting them on the backside more every day. 

[Thomas]

I see george galloway has just posted a video on his twitter timeline of ukrainian soldiers shooting russian POWs in the legs and giving them a kicking. Not the nicest of things to witness , so im not posting it on here , but just goes to show in war like anything else there is no "good and bad " guys despite the canonisation the western media portray of zelensky and the ukrainians.

[B0ycey]

What is it about the elite going off policy to sound tough all the fucking time. Please stop doing that. Even political adversaries should show decorum regardless. This is getting ridiculous now the amount of times a politician says something which then has to get corrected by their paymasters. Yesterday it was Biden turn. I don't think anyone has a clue right now and act on their polling figures. I read Truss wrote today that Putin can expect us to relinquish our sanctions on Russia if they retreat. If there was evidence that sanctions will hurt us more than Russia, that is the statement right there. Any action Russia takes will not be dictated by that I can assure you. They have a mission, it gets solved by diplomacy or militarily and we need to accept that. I was speaking to someone about sanctions yesterday and they said Russia will have a hard time of it. I said they won't given they have all the fuel and the harvest. I had to explain that Russia right now are like a millionaire who has lost his bankcard. They might struggle at first, but once the new card is sent, they can spend again. They are currently working with Iran on a SWIFT alternate. We in the West though are a person who has taken all his money out just before their bank went bust and were made redundant the same day. Sure we seem OK now. But eventually we spend all our money and then we are forced to find a new Job as soon as possible. Eventually the oil, gas and animal feed, wheat whatever will run out and we will then be struggling to find a new partner. That is where we are. It seems we will soon be woken up. Not today, but when the cost of living really hits. Then I doubt people will care too much about who is right and wrong in Ukraine. They will blame the government like always when times are tough. And then the shiy we feed Zelensky won't mean much. He will soon enough understand that he was always on his own.

[Thomas]

As ever you make a point that appears to select me for scrutiny , when the whole thread is inhabited by people with only a threadbare appreciation of the military situation in the Ukraine. Simple military tactics are not beyond everyone.

I think you are being paranoid.

As for WW2 the common enemy was Germany, the fact that Russian , loses were so high actually shows how much damage they suffered from an opponent that was already fighting on several fronts, and slowly being diminished by that fact alone

irrelevant to my point. The media is punting the line the russians are suffering terrible losses ( and therefore are losing and may go home or some other such pish) , and all im pointing out is they suffered massive losses during world war two and still came out on top. Its not difficult.

I just hope Putins, form of brinkmanship, doesn't play a major part in bringing such an event down on all of us.

im more worried about the disaster that appears to be american presidents ,and washington foreign policy . They seem to  want to be surrounded by vassal states subservient to their every whim , and those that arent , must be invaded or attacked directly or indirectly , like their latest proxy war in ukraine.

My country , your country  ,russia and many othes have many faults and problems. However , no one seems to be discussing the major problems america is causing around the world , including their interference in scottish and english/uk internal politics.

if god forbid there is a nuclear war , you can bet anything the yanks will be involved in starting it.

[Good old]

Geez peace good old, you know nothing about this war and the tactics at hand anymore than the rest of us do.

I keep hearing about these enormous russian losses , and possibly this might very well be true. We only have the media to go by , who might or might not be telling porkies as they always do.

All i will say is , both ukraine , and russia itself , feel extremely threatened by events. So the idea the russians are going to pack up and go home anytime soon is fancifull to my mind.

The uk lost half a million people during the second world war , and the russians lost 16 million. ( or around 27 million is you include the old soviet states altogether) They still beat the germans and went on to take half of europe.

I will make a wild stab in the dark here and say this is going to end up another american foreign policy disaster. We , as an american vassal state can only look in while our lords in washington make all the decisions.

We can only hope for our childrens and wives sake this doesnt end up in nuclear armageddon.

As ever you make a point that appears to select me for scrutiny , when the whole thread is inhabited by people with only a threadbare appreciation of the military situation in the Ukraine. Simple military tactics are not beyond everyone.
I make no assertion the Russians will pack up and go home, in fact to me it doesn't seem likely . As for WW2 the common enemy was Germany, the fact that Russian , loses were so high actually shows how much damage they suffered from an opponent that was already fighting on several fronts, and slowly being diminished by that fact alone.  You are entitled to stabs in the dark, don't agree though. Amen, to your thoughts on Armageddon. 
I just hope Putins, form of brinkmanship, doesn't play a major part in bringing such an event down on all of us.

[Thomas]

There will be little to no glory in a protracted situation for Russia, she will have suffered enormous casualties, and her economy will be threadbare at best.
Mao,s quote is every bit as applicable to the Russians .in so much as the thousands of dead and wounded serviceman and civilians their actions are creating will never be retrieved. Or for that forgiven.

Geez peace good old, you know nothing about this war and the tactics at hand anymore than the rest of us do.

I keep hearing about these enormous russian losses , and possibly this might very well be true. We only have the media to go by , who might or might not be telling porkies as they always do.

All i will say is , both ukraine , and russia itself , feel extremely threatened by events. So the idea the russians are going to pack up and go home anytime soon is fancifull to my mind.

The uk lost half a million people during the second world war , and the russians lost 16 million. ( or around 27 million is you include the old soviet states altogether) They still beat the germans and went on to take half of europe.

I will make a wild stab in the dark here and say this is going to end up another american foreign policy disaster. We , as an american vassal state can only look in while our lords in washington make all the decisions.

We can only hope for our childrens and wives sake this doesnt end up in nuclear armageddon.

[Thomas]

Oligarchs, power and profits: the history of BP in Russia

The oil giant's 32-year journey defined the west's lucrative yet complicated courtship of the post-Soviet country

Vladimir Putin had been elected president in 2000 and UK prime minister Tony Blair was keen to build British influence and access in Moscow.

The Russian president came to Britain on a state visit in June 2003, where he was escorted to Buckingham Palace by the British cavalry and welcomed with a 41-gun salute. At a lavish state banquet, he gave a rare speech in English, in which he emphasised the need for the UK and Russia to work together. The TNK-BP deal was signed in front of Putin and Blair three days later.

https://www.ft.com/content/e9238fa2-65a2-4753-a845-ce8129f93a0c?segmentID=c1075872-b06f-c516-01b9-a380a13992f2&twclid=11508027299656081409

[Good old]

Where exactly do you think the DPR and LPR forces come from? thin air? There are up to sixty thousand Ukrainian regulars and Nationalist Militia sitting in North Donetsk. The Russians have not had to advance very far to find them. Now they are starting to deal with them. Look at the map again. The Russians have positioned themselves like two jaws around them, jaws that will close as the Ukrainian lines crumble. The choice they will have is either to stay where they are in encircled in the cauldron or run the gauntlet as they try and get across the river.
Nobody wants a protracted situation, but is that is what is handed to you its what you have to deal with.
I said earlier that the Ukrainians should have headed for the River on day one, but a clearly political decision from media presentation obsessed political leaders have literally hung their army out to dry. So yes its not the war I suspect the Russians were expecting, as they never expected Kiev to make such a frankly dumb decision as the one they have made.

Bit of Chairman Mao for you "Better to lose land and save men as land can be reclaimed, but men are gone forever"

You appear to make the same assessments Putin has made ,and been proved wrong. You obviously think the Ukrainian military are not capable of knowing the strategic position . You think you know it and they don't. Well it's obvious that they know exactly how to fight this war, and the Russians are suffering for it. Pinzer movements have to be done at speed. And it's already been demonstrated that is not a capability the Russians have been able to make use of to any great effect since the first days of their operations.
There will be little to no glory in a protracted situation for Russia, she will have suffered enormous casualties, and her economy will be threadbare at best. 
 Mao,s quote is every bit as applicable to the Russians .in so much as the thousands of dead and wounded serviceman and civilians their actions are creating will never be retrieved. Or for that forgiven. 

[Thomas]

It's a complex world Thomas, I don't expect someone that sees one's self as possessing  saintly status ,such as you display to all forms of perceived failure to realise that .

im not a saint , and have never claimed to be. I can smell the whiff of labour party hypocrisy a fackin mile off though.

Jumping on the pro war ukraine bandwagon isnt going to make you any more electable good old you do realise that?

I see labour are under fire in scotland this sunday morning regarding being found out to be bankrolled by businesses that are also bankrolling the tories? The sunday newspaper headlines are talking about how labour have clearly learned nothing and mentioning their ever plummeting suppport.

...but you carry on jumping on the war bandwagon good old. You would think nearly twenty years on , the blairites would have learned lessons from iraq , that still haunts your party to this day.

If you werent invading sovereign states , your mates brown and blair were kissing and hugging gaddafi in desert tents doing dirty oil deals.

[Good old]

I dont know how you labour party blairites like yourself can say this with a straight fackin face good old.

It's a complex world Thomas, I don't expect someone that sees one's self as possessing  saintly status ,such as you display to all forms of perceived failure to realise that .

[Thomas]

. Unless it's to understand that invading a sovereign state that neighbours you is intrinsically wrong

I dont know how you labour party blairites like yourself can say this with a straight fackin face good old.

[Thomas]

Where exactly do you think the DPR and LPR forces come from? thin air? There are up to sixty thousand Ukrainian regulars and Nationalist Militia sitting in North Donetsk. The Russians have not had to advance very far to find them. Now they are starting to deal with them. Look at the map again. The Russians have positioned themselves like two jaws around them, jaws that will close as the Ukrainian lines crumble. The choice they will have is either to stay where they are in encircled in the cauldron or run the gauntlet as they try and get across the river.
Nobody wants a protracted situation, but is that is what is handed to you its what you have to deal with.
I said earlier that the Ukrainians should have headed for the River on day one, but a clearly political decision from media presentation obsessed political leaders have literally hung their army out to dry. So yes its not the war I suspect the Russians were expecting, as they never expected Kiev to make such a frankly dumb decision as the one they have made.

Bit of Chairman Mao for you "Better to lose land and save men as land can be reclaimed, but men are gone forever"

just catching up on the news there , and lo and behold i thought we were being told the russians are losing  by the western media?

There im just reading the azov battalion has suffered its biggest losses on record , and whats left surrendered en masse at mariupol?