Lizz is going to be unpopular

[srb7677]

Brown sold all our gold at rock bottom prices to try and win a GE, this was always going to be a short term blip, and it was.

What are you talking about? The crash occurred in 2008, long after the gold reserves were sold off between 1999 and 2002. As a result of the stimulus that followed the crash, the growth rate was soaring by 2010. How could this have been something that resulted from something done a decade earlier? 

Yes, it proved to be a blip, but only because Tory cuts killed it off.

[Nick]

We have had this before, debt did little more than plateau , a very slight dip prior to Covid, from a position £800 billion more borrowing since 2010. Anyway it wasn't just the borrowing levels that were the problem . It was a complete reliance on cuts , as against any real investment in vital services that leaves us in dire straights now , those cuts in most cases have equated to a wastage of personnel that can not be replaced inside of years , in other words long term damage.

Labour took the country to the edge of the cliff, threw us off and then handed it over to the Tories. The country was set on that path by Labour, but you keep blaming the Tories. 

[Nick]

The annual deficit was actually coming down though by much less than intended because those Tory simpletons failed to understand that a national economy does not function like a household budget. Cut spending too drastically and the economy shrinks and the budget gets smaller in response, putting a severe brake on deficit reduction.

You are also equating the annual deficit with overall debt which continued to rise throughout the Tory years, the deficit being a measure of how much by each year.

Economic stimulus would have worked much better and done far, far less damage to the country which after swingeing cuts has become one where almost nothing works well and service provision is appalling and ramshackle. The Tories inherited an economy with a soaring rate of growth resulting from Brown's stimulus package. Had this continued, by enlarging the economy it would have reduced the deficit automatically with far fewer damaging cuts being necessary. But the economically illiterate Tories didn't get it.

In simple terms though your above statement is just plain wrong. Whilst the annual deficit - ie the amount being borrowed each year - was getting smaller, the size of the overall debt was still growing throughout that time.

Brown sold all our gold at rock bottom prices to try and win a GE, this was always going to be a short term blip, and it was. 

[Good old]

U.K. debt was coming down before Covid, FACT. So the above is simply untrue.

We have had this before, debt did little more than plateau , a very slight dip prior to Covid, from a position £800 billion more borrowing since 2010. Anyway it wasn't just the borrowing levels that were the problem . It was a complete reliance on cuts , as against any real investment in vital services that leaves us in dire straights now , those cuts in most cases have equated to a wastage of personnel that can not be replaced inside of years , in other words long term damage.

[srb7677]

U.K. debt was coming down before Covid, FACT. So the above is simply untrue.

The annual deficit was actually coming down though by much less than intended because those Tory simpletons failed to understand that a national economy does not function like a household budget. Cut spending too drastically and the economy shrinks and the budget gets smaller in response, putting a severe brake on deficit reduction.

You are also equating the annual deficit with overall debt which continued to rise throughout the Tory years, the deficit being a measure of how much by each year. 

Economic stimulus would have worked much better and done far, far less damage to the country which after swingeing cuts has become one where almost nothing works well and service provision is appalling and ramshackle. The Tories inherited an economy with a soaring rate of growth resulting from Brown's stimulus package. Had this continued, by enlarging the economy it would have reduced the deficit automatically with far fewer damaging cuts being necessary. But the economically illiterate Tories didn't get it.

In simple terms though your above statement is just plain wrong. Whilst the annual deficit - ie the amount being borrowed each year - was getting smaller, the size of the overall debt was still growing throughout that time.

[Nick]

You really are blind. The country is now in such a mess it's not likely to ever recover . And ten years of unneeded cutting budget after budget to the bone , whilst borrowing through the roof , had us on a downward slope long before Covid, let alone Putins, war.  The Tories are going to leave this country in such a state it's likely , it will not even be stabilised in ten years time, in fact they have brought the Goose that once laid golden eggs to its knees by starving it with their ill judged cuts
Labour might not be able to clear this mess up , but they could not have made a  bigger one than this distinctly Tory mess.
As for poor people daring to have credit, wasn't that Thatchers whole aim in life. ? Were  the bankers so incompetent as to not know a bad debt when they saw one?  The banking world ripped its self off, governments around the world suffered for it. Incidentally very little of the debt that caused the collapse was accrued in this country . So what other than greed made our greedy bankers get their noses in the sub prime market?

U.K. debt was coming down before Covid, FACT. So the above is simply untrue. 

[Sheepy]

You really are blind. The country is now in such a mess it's not likely to ever recover . And ten years of unneeded cutting budget after budget to the bone , whilst borrowing through the roof , had us on a downward slope long before Covid, let alone Putins, war.  The Tories are going to leave this country in such a state it's likely , it will not even be stabilised in ten years time, in fact they have brought the Goose that once laid golden eggs to its knees by starving it with their ill judged cuts
Labour might not be able to clear this mess up , but they could not have made a  bigger one than this distinctly Tory mess.
As for poor people daring to have credit, wasn't that Thatchers whole aim in life. ? Were  the bankers so incompetent as to not know a bad debt when they saw one?  The banking world ripped its self off, governments around the world suffered for it. Incidentally very little of the debt that caused the collapse was accrued in this country . So what other than greed made our greedy bankers get their noses in the sub prime market?

Just goes to show, the Westminster party all vote for the same thing. But then you won't see it until it is another crisis.

[Good old]

Yes but you have to look at who was running the country at the time, the party that leaves the country in a worse state than they find it every time.

Before the rabid Labourites chirp up, we've just been through a pandemic and are in a war situation.

You really are blind. The country is now in such a mess it's not likely to ever recover . And ten years of unneeded cutting budget after budget to the bone , whilst borrowing through the roof , had us on a downward slope long before Covid, let alone Putins, war.  The Tories are going to leave this country in such a state it's likely , it will not even be stabilised in ten years time, in fact they have brought the Goose that once laid golden eggs to its knees by starving it with their ill judged cuts
Labour might not be able to clear this mess up , but they could not have made a  bigger one than this distinctly Tory mess.
As for poor people daring to have credit, wasn't that Thatchers whole aim in life. ? Were  the bankers so incompetent as to not know a bad debt when they saw one?  The banking world ripped its self off, governments around the world suffered for it. Incidentally very little of the debt that caused the collapse was accrued in this country . So what other than greed made our greedy bankers get their noses in the sub prime market?

[srb7677]

Before the rabid Labourites chirp up, we've just been through a pandemic and are in a war situation. 

Well who was running the country at the time?

The banking crisis was no more Labour's doing than the pandemic or the Ukraine war was the Tories'.

You cannot sensibly argue that everything bad that happens is the government's fault when Labour is in, but nothing to do with the government when the Tories are in.

You are I presume aware that the crash began in the USA? I don't recall the USA having a Labour government at the time.

[Nick]

The Tories have messed up the country since May 2010 and it is getting worse. (Britain is NOT at war.)

Did I say we were? 
I said we are in a war situation, the situation being our economy is being affected by the war, that is the situation. 

[papasmurf]

Yes but you have to look at who was running the country at the time, the party that leaves the country in a worse state than they find it every time.

Before the rabid Labourites chirp up, we've just been through a pandemic and are in a war situation.

The Tories have messed up the country since May 2010 and it is getting worse. (Britain is NOT at war.)

[Nick]

Except he has a perfectly valid point, bankers bonuses are driven by pure greed which definitely added to the problem, while passing the buck for it on the poor.

Yes but you have to look at who was running the country at the time, the party that leaves the country in a worse state than they find it every time. 

Before the rabid Labourites chirp up, we've just been through a pandemic and are in a war situation. 

[Sheepy]

As Borky said, that was down to people having credit that shouldn't have had it and not paying it back. Nothing to do with bankers bonuses.

Except he has a perfectly valid point, bankers bonuses are driven by pure greed which definitely added to the problem, while passing the buck for it on the poor.

[Nick]

The last time we had unlimited bankers' bonusses it generated such unrestrained greed that they tanked the global economy in pursuit of their own selfish greed.

And you think that kind of "talent" needs encouraging again?

As Borky said, that was down to people having credit that shouldn't have had it and not paying it back. Nothing to do with bankers bonuses.

[Barry]

We might have to call Barry in then, so how long will it take exactly for them to pay back through tax the debt mountain, that they have done more than their fair share to create?

I don't have all the figures to calculate, but the last I heard the debt will never be paid back because it increases each year.

GOV love debt, or so it seems.