She’s gone ?

[Sheepy]

When Labour believed in Brexit

I wasn't around at the time, and I only became interested much later at uni. But the story of how forty years ago, Left-wing MPs travelled to Brussels to negotiate an exit is both interesting and enlightening.

I think the write-up linked to below is accurate enough to be informative...

https://unherd.com/2021/09/when-labour-believed-in-brexit/

That was before they realised they could do whatever the EU executive said and make personal fortunes from it. All they had to do was convince the zombies it was all for their own good and become thoroughly modern neo-liberals. Stitching up the voters well all par for the course.

[johnofgwent]

When Labour believed in Brexit

I wasn't around at the time, and I only became interested much later at uni. But the story of how forty years ago, Left-wing MPs travelled to Brussels to negotiate an exit is both interesting and enlightening.

I think the write-up linked to below is accurate enough to be informative...

https://unherd.com/2021/09/when-labour-believed-in-brexit/

I WAS around at the time, indeed I was then 23 and in university

i remember the Labour Party under the thumb of militant tendency and the Student Union run as if a branch of the KGB. We never did sue the fuckers for their withholding the Biochemical Society funding but we should have just to see the smarmy bastard who ran it dragged off to prison for fraud and corruption. We might have won the episode of Univrrsity Challenge then, with a team of genuine arts and science students instead of that fucker's drinking pals but I perhaps digress

i DO however remember Militsnt tendency making the party a laughingstock, the Gang of Four castrating it and Michael Fiot publishing the longest suicide note in history, longer even than Liz Truss's Party Leadership Acceptance Speech

When Jeremy Corbyn had the successor to Militant Tendency post the Labour Election Manifesto - they had it long before the Labour Party website did, it became clear to me it was the same bill as back then, just a different farmer.

[patman post]

When Labour believed in Brexit

I wasn't around at the time, and I only became interested much later at uni. But the story of how forty years ago, Left-wing MPs travelled to Brussels to negotiate an exit is both interesting and enlightening.

I think the write-up linked to below is accurate enough to be informative...

https://unherd.com/2021/09/when-labour-believed-in-brexit/

[Good old]

Aw come on the anti EU brigade didn't try to scupper parliament from day one. They waited 45 years before even given a chance to get us out. Politics is a completely different place now. There is no acceptance of the vote, or any vote, hence I have said many times that we are almost ungovernable. Wait and see, you think Labour any better? That veneer will disintegrate just as fast.

Toots, it was going on for year's  in the Tory party . It was a massive issue for Major, so much so he felt the need to refer to people in the party pushing anti EU sentiments ,with language I don't need to repeat. That was over thirty five years ago . This issue was always a problem and something of an open wound for the Tory party.
Nigel took it cleverly beyond the Tory party, and drew working class support. It was never a Labour problem as such, outside of losing some of its vote.
It strikes me those that wanted out of the EU got it. We don't belong. Those that talk  control meant electing our own British controllers and can not now accept that their  controlers were voted for in 2019 still can not satisfy every appetite .  Maybe a bit more care as to who we vote for might help.

[patman post]

Why not?

From my admittedly limited sample, most folk are quite enjoying the hustling and the general media kerfuffle.

I guess life on the allotments runs at a different pace and offers different excitements for any old codger who's sitting there among his cabbages and leaks...

PS — Apologies, that's probably discriminatory, there must be some women allotmenteers, too...

[patman post]

Once again you pull out the race card!! Ever thought people just don't like him because he is associated with his wife who has blatantly dodged tax? No, it must be the colour of his skin.

You've claimed on here to have avoided paying unnecessary tax. How's that different from anyone else legitimately not paying tax that they're not required to?

Like Starmer's meal break during a working day, Sunak's wife's tax status was hyped up by the current cross-breed of Tory dirty tricks and Tory media. As was the cost of his shoes.

How to respond to your race card jibe — I guess I should overlook it, just as you do with such Johnson classic comments as: "It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies" or saying (on Muslim face veils) it's "absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letterboxes"...

[T00ts]

It's the nature of our democracy, it has never been different thank god. We entered into the EU, did those that did not want that ever  stop agitating for the day they  got a referendum. We would still be in the EU if they had not.
You got what you wanted we are out of the EU. You wanted control you elected that control in 2019. Who do you want to control now?And why should those that disagree with you not do exactly what was done by the pro Brexit brigade for many years.?

Aw come on the anti EU brigade didn't try to scupper parliament from day one. They waited 45 years before even given a chance to get us out. Politics is a completely different place now. There is no acceptance of the vote, or any vote, hence I have said many times that we are almost ungovernable. Wait and see, you think Labour any better? That veneer will disintegrate just as fast.

[Good old]

I like to think so but it hasn't stopped the remainers from continuing to moan ad nauseum and put the boot in every chance they get!! Having said that there are those in powerful places who still have an agenda to delay any further travel away from the EU no matter how it holds the country back.

It's the nature of our democracy, it has never been different thank god. We entered into the EU, did those that did not want that ever  stop agitating for the day they  got a referendum. We would still be in the EU if they had not.
You got what you wanted we are out of the EU. You wanted control you elected that control in 2019. Who do you want to control now?And why should those that disagree with you not do exactly what was done by the pro Brexit brigade for many years.?

[Borchester]

Neither the Tory Party nor the country would feel good if they were put through another eight-week circus, with no guarantee they wouldn't end up with a second disaster.

Personally, I hope it's all down to the MPs final choice. But, whatever, it will be over quickly...

Why not?

From my admittedly limited sample, most folk are quite enjoying the hustling and the general media kerfuffle. 

[T00ts]

Remind me Toots , has Boris,s oven ready deal got us out of the EU or not.? Last time I looked we left the EU.
Didn't we do that so the geeks we elect have full control? 

   I like to think so but it hasn't stopped the remainers from continuing to moan ad nauseum and put the boot in every chance they get!! Having said that there are those in powerful places who still have an agenda to delay any further travel away from the EU no matter how it holds the country back.

[Good old]

While in the perverse world of those who would remain they will stop at little to reverse the democratic vote.

Remind me Toots , has Boris,s oven ready deal got us out of the EU or not.? Last time I looked we left the EU.
Didn't we do that so the geeks we elect have full control?  

[T00ts]

In the perverse world of many committed brexiteers. Tory or otherwise , Boris represents what they see as their only real chance of ever getting what they think was voted for. Truss was the substitute.

While in the perverse world of those who would remain they will stop at little to reverse the democratic vote.

[Good old]

In what perverse world would Truss ever be favoured over Sunak?

In the perverse world of many committed brexiteers. Tory or otherwise , Boris represents what they see as their only real chance of ever getting what they think was voted for. Truss was the substitute.

[Nick]

No I'm not you have changed your stance on tax

No I have not. 

[cromwell]

I'm merely countering PP's premise that it was his skin colour that lost him the gig, but you know that and are playing games.

No I'm not you have changed your stance on tax