Bali Bonking Ban

[papasmurf]

And Liberals (Smith), change the record.

Nick the point being the problem is all over Britain not confined to areas controlled by one political party.

[Nick]

It is also forgets  there are many Tory areas with the same problem, Aylesbury and High Wycombe being just two.

And Liberals (Smith), change the record.

[johnofgwent]

No. I mean what I posted: is the UK always that different from other countries in its attitudes to children and sex?

Using the excuse Labour turned a blind eye in Rotherham is simply dodging the question and passing the buck — where were the Police and child care authorities? And what was/is Rotherham unique compared to elsewhere in the country, and is it going to be aggravated by the current economic hardships around the UK?

Already, some teenagers and young adults are turning to prostitution — as one report put it, to make ends meet...

I was trying to get a measure of whether you were referring to the institutionalised blind eye turned to child sex abuse or the laissez faire attitude of parents of teenagers approaching 16

I stand by what I said.

It is my personal experience from my teenage years and experience gained from discussions with midwifery and the like staff when Moira was having Sarah that :-

1) there was, back when I was a lot younger, a general acceptance of those in year four in the school (age 15) being on the pill and at it like rabbits and no one gave a damn.

I was mocked utterly and physically and verbally bullied for 'not being in this clique' until I beat the crap out of the lead bully, putting him in hospital with a broken skull and inheriting his admiring - but by then entirely 16+ and legal) harem.

By then I was well past 17 and rather enjoying my time with my quite serious girlfriend those bastards knew nothing of as she lived in a village miles away and attended an quite different school and was already 16....

But you need to bear in mind this was the early 1970s when young men with few academic qualifications were leaving school at 15 and going straight into jobs.

It would be my final year of compulsory education before ROSLA condemned the academically gifted to have their lessons disrupted by the academically Shyte who would in prior years have f**ked off and got Low skilled low paying jobs.

Low skilled low paying jobs yes, but jobs that meant they could afford the council house rent.

 It was still the case in 1982 that the lowliest of almost graduate students working part time in vacations to amass savings, and the lowliest of civil servants on the bottom of the pay scale earned enough between them to pay the tribunal fixed rent, rates, electric, bottled gas, water rates, and still have enough to just about live on because f**k me moira and I did exactly that for the few months after our marriage before my paid research student ship came through, she carried the brunt of the bills and by Christ she has never let me forget it.

2) when moira was in the maternity ward having Sarah at the age of 27 she was tagged as a mature mother at special risk for a first child.

in fact her Blood Pressure rose alarmingly as Sarah became increasingly overdue and toxaemia of pregnancy was suspected and she was induced lest all hell break loose.

But when I first saw this tag that Moira was considered of 'mature years' for a first pregnancy I was quite annoyed. I openly demanded to know what the 'normal' age was then and one smart arse staff nurse chucked back '14' but quite quickly switched her answer to 16-17 when she saw my face. Yes, even as late as the mid 80s SOME girls were still getting pregnant at 16 but the days of free council housing were by then rapidly shrinking to nothing 

3) Yes, in the council estates where the ministers of the city ecumenical group went to call on various residents it was indeed the case that several single mums and couples with babies were indeed barely 16 when they had them and clearly had been shagging illegally within the letter of the law. Come to think of it, my brother .... ahem. Enough

BUT

There is a WORLD of difference between two fifteen year olds or a 16 year old with a job getting a fifteen year old up the duff and having a shotgun wedding or similar cohabitation when she hits 16 and the setting of an age of consent at 12 and the enjoyment of men in their 30s and 40s of girls of that age.


So NO. I utterly reject your suggestion that there is bugger all difference between the United Kingdom I grew up in and the Islamic and worse shitholes where middle aged men can have girls of ten or twelve

[papasmurf]

Using the excuse Labour turned a blind eye in Rotherham is simply dodging the question and passing the buck 

It is also forgets  there are many Tory areas with the same problem, Aylesbury and High Wycombe being just two.

[patman post]

You mean institutionally as in Rotherham and other places where labour turned a blind eye to the antics of Asian Men for fear of having to admit the BNP were right, or mire generally with parents turning a blind eye to 15 year old Sharon getting laid on a regular basis by her 'boyfriend' (or maybe six different ones)

I think the parts of the UK where diversity is largely unchanged from the 1970s or 1980s even where 'teenage pregnancy' was seen as a swift route to a council house still had a pretty severe distinction between a couple of 15 year olds bonking and a forty year old grooming a child of twelve or even younger.

whereas modern day Rotherham, Oldham, etc etc whose diversity more closely resembles the third world shitholes where the age of consent is 12 clearly follow the moral code of those shit holes.

No. I mean what I posted: is the UK always that different from other countries in its attitudes to children and sex?

Using the excuse Labour turned a blind eye in Rotherham is simply dodging the question and passing the buck — where were the Police and child care authorities? And what was/is Rotherham unique compared to elsewhere in the country, and is it going to be aggravated by the current economic hardships around the UK?

Already, some teenagers and young adults are turning to prostitution — as one report put it, to make ends meet...

[johnofgwent]

Apart from being a wealthier country, is the UK always that different from other countries in its attitudes to children and sex?

In 2017 the Family Education Trust published its landmark report Unprotected: How the normalisation of underage sex is exposing children and young people to the risk of sexual exploitation. Drawing on a number of serious case reviews and the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham, Unprotected revealed fundamental flaws in professional attitudes towards children and young people and towards underage sexual activity. The evidence revealed that:

— many professionals had a complacent attitude towards underage sexual activity, as long as there was no great age disparity, this was often seen as a normal part of growing up

— a professional readiness to routinely provide contraception to young people under the legal age of consent in confidence, without considering the possibility that they may be suffering abuse;

— a tendency to dismiss the concerns of parents;

— an inclination to treat children under the age of 16 as adults with the competence to make their own decisions with regard to sexual activity.

https://familyeducationtrust.org.uk/the-report-of-the-independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-abuse-considered-in-light-of-unprotected/#more-5320

Plus, sex tourists from the UK make up a fair amount of trade in the less expensive resorts in The Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, etc...

You mean institutionally as in Rotherham and other places where labour turned a blind eye to the antics of Asian Men for fear of having to admit the BNP were right, or mire generally with parents turning a blind eye to 15 year old Sharon getting laid on a regular basis by her 'boyfriend' (or maybe six different ones)

I think the parts of the UK where diversity is largely unchanged from the 1970s or 1980s even where 'teenage pregnancy' was seen as a swift route to a council house still had a pretty severe distinction between a couple of 15 year olds bonking and a forty year old grooming a child of twelve or even younger.

whereas modern day Rotherham, Oldham, etc etc whose diversity more closely resembles the third world shitholes where the age of consent is 12 clearly follow the moral code of those shit holes.

 

[Nick]

I recall this was the situation in Nigeria 50 years ago and still was 20 years ago.

A school mate across the road lost his dad "in suspicious circumstances" in the country - he was an engineer working for an oil company sent out there to sort out shit at a refinery or processing plant - and I heard about it from them. It was the same when Hughes Aircraft's subsidiary for whom I did the satcoms stuff sent engineers there. The tales they came back with, well, you've clearly seen first hand.

Yep, Nigeria is the most dangerous place I've been, and I've been to Mozambique and Colombia. They had an issue one night at the factory and they asked me to attend about 11:30 at night. They sent an ambulance and I had to lie down with a blanket covering me as we went to the factory with lights and two-tones going, the only way they could guarantee my face being seen and the car jacked. Never again!!

[patman post]

Apart from being a wealthier country, is the UK always that different from other countries in its attitudes to children and sex?

In 2017 the Family Education Trust published its landmark report Unprotected: How the normalisation of underage sex is exposing children and young people to the risk of sexual exploitation. Drawing on a number of serious case reviews and the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham, Unprotected revealed fundamental flaws in professional attitudes towards children and young people and towards underage sexual activity. The evidence revealed that:

— many professionals had a complacent attitude towards underage sexual activity, as long as there was no great age disparity, this was often seen as a normal part of growing up

— a professional readiness to routinely provide contraception to young people under the legal age of consent in confidence, without considering the possibility that they may be suffering abuse;

— a tendency to dismiss the concerns of parents;

— an inclination to treat children under the age of 16 as adults with the competence to make their own decisions with regard to sexual activity.

https://familyeducationtrust.org.uk/the-report-of-the-independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-abuse-considered-in-light-of-unprotected/#more-5320

Plus, sex tourists from the UK make up a fair amount of trade in the less expensive resorts in The Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, etc...

[johnofgwent]

Age of consent is relative, I was in Angola working at a CocaCola plant in the 90's and questioned why a load of young girls were hanging around the factory gates, I was told they were 'working', I couldn't believe it. They explained the age of consent was 12 and that if a girl didn't get on her bike and have children in their early teens they most likely would be dead before their children were old enough to look after them selves. Life expectancy then was 40 odd back then. Sounds disgusting I know but...

I recall this was the situation in Nigeria 50 years ago and still was 20 years ago.

A school mate across the road lost his dad "in suspicious circumstances" in the country - he was an engineer working for an oil company sent out there to sort out shit at a refinery or processing plant - and I heard about it from them. It was the same when Hughes Aircraft's subsidiary for whom I did the satcoms stuff sent engineers there. The tales they came back with, well, you've clearly seen first hand.

[Nick]

Age of consent is relative, I was in Angola working at a CocaCola plant in the 90's and questioned why a load of young girls were hanging around the factory gates, I was told they were 'working', I couldn't believe it. They explained the age of consent was 12 and that if a girl didn't get on her bike and have children in their early teens they most likely would be dead before their children were old enough to look after them selves. Life expectancy then was 40 odd back then. Sounds disgusting I know but...

[johnofgwent]

Bearing in mind that the age of consent is currently 16 and the age of adulthood is 18, but I get what you are saying.

It is at the moment. Labour currently seem to want to push the age you can marry up to 18, whilst leaving the age of consent where it is. 

[Barry]

If two people want to have sex - provided that they are consenting adults - it should be no business of the law. And the moral dimensions of it should be a matter of personal conscience, open to persuasion but never diktat.

Bearing in mind that the age of consent is currently 16 and the age of adulthood is 18, but I get what you are saying.

[Nick]

Religion and faith is - and of right ought to be - a matter of conscience. But when behaviour is dictated by law under threat of punishment to conform to the dictates of religion, then religion itself becomes an oppressive tyranny.

Let the faithful of any religion reach out and try and persuade in regard to good moral conduct. But using the law to make people conform in terms of their moral conduct is counterproductive. Because fear of punishment is no substitute for feeling something in your heart and will likely only drive people away in their hearts.

If two people want to have sex - provided that they are consenting adults - it should be no business of the law. And the moral dimensions of it should be a matter of personal conscience, open to persuasion but never diktat.

Yesterday they announced that open expression of affection from gay people here was illegal. I also seem to recall some years ago Uganda putting the death penalty on being gay. I personally do not subscribe to any form of religious law. I think it was Dubai where a young girl was raped, the man was caught and flogged. The young girl was jailed for having sex outside of marriage!! How in the name of ANY of the 2000 Gods is that right. 

[srb7677]

Have Iran's Morality Police found a new home ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-63874633

Indonesia just outlawed sex outside marriage. Well, the legislation is scheduled to take effect in three years time, so no pressure, but after that, locals, foreigners working in the country and tourists caught shagging without the requisite paperwork are going to be risking prison time.

Incredibly the tourist ministry is saying don't worry about it, the law is only going to be enforced if a family member makes a complaint (!!)

The worlds gone mad.

And Australians are already calling it the Bali Bonking Ban

Religion and faith is - and of right ought to be - a matter of conscience. But when behaviour is dictated by law under threat of punishment to conform to the dictates of religion, then religion itself becomes an oppressive tyranny.

Let the faithful of any religion reach out and try and persuade in regard to good moral conduct. But using the law to make people conform in terms of their moral conduct is counterproductive. Because fear of punishment is no substitute for feeling something in your heart and will likely only drive people away in their hearts.

If two people want to have sex - provided that they are consenting adults - it should be no business of the law. And the moral dimensions of it should be a matter of personal conscience, open to persuasion but never diktat.

[johnofgwent]

Have Iran's Morality Police found a new home ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-63874633

Indonesia just outlawed sex outside marriage. Well, the legislation is scheduled to take effect in three years time, so no pressure, but after that, locals, foreigners working in the country and tourists caught shagging without the requisite paperwork are going to be risking prison time.

Incredibly the tourist ministry is saying don't worry about it, the law is only going to be enforced if a family member makes a complaint (!!)

The worlds gone mad.

And Australians are already calling it the Bali Bonking Ban