CE mark climbdown

[BeElBeeBub]

Kind of shows you've never worked in the OEM industries where CE marking is stuck on everything regardless of compliance. It's not worth a shit, and as SW told you, the BS little mark tells you it's manufactured to a specific standard.

That's where.you are wrong.

I used to CE mark both our own products for medical and industrial but also compiled the technical field etc for CE marking non-EU manufacturer products.  I also both audited companies for iso9001/2 and also ensures our own compliance with the above (plus a bunch of others)

You say "stuck on everything", that's the point. Orcs called self certification. They may  it realise.it, but by self certifying they were taking responsibility for the.oroduxt across the EU. If their hydraulic actuator failed in an Italian made machine working in Spain injuring someone, when they look for responsibility the Italian manufacturer can look to the CE mark and say "Nick Industries in the UK CE marked it, go sue them" and you could because the UK had agreed to cooperate legally.

Now the Italian manufacturer would be left holding the responsibility for your defective.cylinder.

It puts UK.compamies.at a disadvantage when trying to sell to our biggest market.

[Streetwalker]

Why is this a nationalistic point-scoring fest? Surely, the more international standards conform, the better for everyone...?

Its not really about conforming but what court overseas the conformity . But its up to manufacturers  and in what market they are selling to do whats best for them
 its a free country  after all .

[Nick]

Kind of shows you don't understand what the CE mark was or the difference with a kitemark

But don't take my word, here_s the BSI....

The point of the CE mark is it reduces red tape by meaning the various hoops needed to be jumped through only have to be jumped through once, rather than for each country.  A UKCA mark is pointless as it is only valid for one country, tracks the CE mark anyway, and isn't even needed if you have a CE mark.

Kind of shows you've never worked in the OEM industries where CE marking is stuck on everything regardless of compliance. It's not worth a shit, and as SW told you, the BS little mark tells you it's manufactured to a specific standard. 

[BeElBeeBub]

The only mark of quality I trust is the kite mark .

All the CE (French for European conformity )  or indeed the UKCA (United Kingdom Conformity Assessed ) symbols mean is that the product meets the minimum legal requirements

The Kite Mark however is sign that the product has been assessed and  tested and must been shown to be of a level of quality ,safety ,sustainability and or security over and above any basic legal requirements .

An easy check for anyone would be the lock on your front door . If the cylinder doesn't have a kite mark on it its crap, easily 'snapped' and needs to be replaced with one with a Kite on it  .The same can be said of crash helmets and smoke alarms ,no Kite =No good

In other words the Kite means the product is fit for purpose . Its for this reason that goods that actually need to be up to spec will be exempt from having to use the CE mark . So far that includes all construction products and medical devices from a sticking plaster to an MRI scanner

What the UK need to do is  stop being so dumb and rather than try to substitute the CE with the UKCA  which is basically the same thing so backtracking to CE means jack shite  they should be promoting the Kite  as a sign of British quality .

Weirdly, I half agree.

The move away from CE was.dumb and driven by Johnson's need for optics over substance.

The point about the kitemark being a sign of extra quality is correct. In some arenas it is almost a requirement.

However, it misses the point about the CE mark being the minimum legal requirement (which is correct).  That's the point. It is the.minimum.*legal* requirement.

Having a kitemark doesn't mean you don't need a CE mark, even though your product and processes needed to get that kitemark might be in excess of those required.for a CE mark.

Unless you totally unify the various member states markets (and the anti EU brigade shout "over regulation! Loss of sovereignty!!") You need some sort of mechanism to indicate a product has met the minimum standards even though the Italiansay do things differently from the Dutch etc.

That was what the CE mark meant.

Part of it was also the requirement that the marker was in member state, or at least under the jurisdiction of an EU court.

Imagine if the kitemark could be given by a Chinese company with no jurisdiction by a British court.  Say it just rubber.stamped some cranes, which failed and crushes a load of people.  Then you go to sue the certifying body.... But you can't because they are.in China and waving two fingers at you.

Likewise the CE mark can only be given by a body in a member state. So it is now more difficult for UK companies to get a CE mark. Especially if they previously self certified. Now they must get it down externally (more expensive and difficult) or open up a subsidiary in the EU (not really an option for small firms).

Even BSI can only offer CE marking via their Dutch arm.

[patman post]

Why is this a nationalistic point-scoring fest? Surely, the more international standards conform, the better for everyone...?

[Streetwalker]

The only mark of quality I trust is the kite mark .

All the CE (French for European conformity )  or indeed the UKCA (United Kingdom Conformity Assessed ) symbols mean is that the product meets the minimum legal requirements 

The Kite Mark however is sign that the product has been assessed and  tested and must been shown to be of a level of quality ,safety ,sustainability and or security over and above any basic legal requirements .

An easy check for anyone would be the lock on your front door . If the cylinder doesn't have a kite mark on it its crap, easily 'snapped' and needs to be replaced with one with a Kite on it  .The same can be said of crash helmets and smoke alarms ,no Kite =No good

In other words the Kite means the product is fit for purpose . Its for this reason that goods that actually need to be up to spec will be exempt from having to use the CE mark . So far that includes all construction products and medical devices from a sticking plaster to an MRI scanner 

What the UK need to do is  stop being so dumb and rather than try to substitute the CE with the UKCA  which is basically the same thing so backtracking to CE means jack shite  they should be promoting the Kite  as a sign of British quality .

[BeElBeeBub]

We've had the BS kite mark since the early 1900's, we didn't need CE or UKCA, the job was already covered. 

Kind of shows you don't understand what the CE mark was or the difference with a kitemark

But don't take my word, here_s the BSI....

The BSI Kitemark™ originated in 1903, making it one of the world's longest standing quality marks. Unlike
the CE mark and UKCA mark, it is a voluntary mark of trust, so is not required by law, and cannot be used in place of the other marks.

The point of the CE mark is it reduces red tape by meaning the various hoops needed to be jumped through only have to be jumped through once, rather than for each country.  A UKCA mark is pointless as it is only valid for one country, tracks the CE mark anyway, and isn't even needed if you have a CE mark.

[Nick]

As widely predicted by anyone who knew anything about CE marking, the government has finally done the inevitable and accepted the CE mark indefinitely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66375185

This means the UKCA mark is effectively dead in the water.

Anyone making things in EU won't bother with UKCA because they already have a CE mark

Anyone outside Europe will probably get a CE mark that covers EU and UK rather than a UKCA mark that only covers the UK

Anyone in the UK will get a CE mark if they want to sell to Europe.

The only people who might get a UKCA mark will be a UK based manufacturer of UK only goods, but as the UKCA mark tracks the CE mark anyway, what's the point? It s the same standards, just not as recognised. Basically the Betamax or 3" floppy disk of regulatory marks.

So bravo 👏👏👏 all around for wasting huge amount of time and money on something experts said was a dumb idea. Very "on brand" for Brexit Britain.

We've had the BS kite mark since the early 1900's, we didn't need CE or UKCA, the job was already covered. A stewardess on a KLM flight tried to stop us from using a car seat with the Kite mark, she went to ask the pilot and he said anything with the Kite mark is good quality and she backed down. 

[BeElBeeBub]

As widely predicted by anyone who knew anything about CE marking, the government has finally done the inevitable and accepted the CE mark indefinitely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66375185

This means the UKCA mark is effectively dead in the water.

Anyone making things in EU won't bother with UKCA because they already have a CE mark

Anyone outside Europe will probably get a CE mark that covers EU and UK rather than a UKCA mark that only covers the UK

Anyone in the UK will get a CE mark if they want to sell to Europe.

The only people who might get a UKCA mark will be a UK based manufacturer of UK only goods, but as the UKCA mark tracks the CE mark anyway, what's the point? It s the same standards, just not as recognised. Basically the Betamax or 3" floppy disk of regulatory marks.

So bravo 👏👏👏 all around for wasting huge amount of time and money on something experts said was a dumb idea. Very "on brand" for Brexit Britain.