Yet more proof.

[cromwell]

The global climate has *never* changed to this degree whilst humans have been around.

Really so what happened to Doggerland?

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/doggerland/

[BeElBeeBub]

Explain why scientists are staring to distance them selves from CO2 and are now refocusing on Methane? A much more responsive gas, and at a much higher concentration in the atmosphere. Also CO2 is 1.5 times heavier than air so how does it rise?

Why don't you explain which scientists are "starting to distance themselves from CO2". Are these scientists in the room with us now?

There hasn't been a scientific refocussing on methane, scientists have always pointed out that methane is a very potent greenhouse gas. That's why "co2 equivalent" is used for emissions.  It's also why the natural gas sector is problematic as "fugitive methane" aka leaks, have a large impact on "co2 equivalent" emissions.  Politicians are belatedly starting to focus on methane though, so may E that's where your confusion comes from.

As for your query about the density of co2... Really?  You understand turbulence and diffusion right? (Or maybe not). Co2 molecules mix throughout the atmosphere in the same way that nitrogen and oxygen atoms mix thought the atmosphere despite oxygen being 1.15x as heavy as nitrogen.

[BeElBeeBub]

The climate has always changed,if the whole of the UK ceased to exist it wouldn't make any difference,the massive problem isn't climate change its population.

The global climate has *never* changed to this degree whilst humans have been around.

[papasmurf]

Explain why scientists are staring to distance them selves from CO2 and are now refocusing on Methane? A much more responsive gas, and at a much higher concentration in the atmosphere. Also CO2 is 1.5 times heavier than air so how does it rise?

Science not your strong point Nick?

[Nick]

My point was that the observed data (that the winter average monthly temps were higher than expected) for your predictions of CO2 driven warming Vs orbital driven warming.

Your OP asked (to paraphrase) "explain to me why are winters getting colder when we would expect them to be warmer if CO2 was the driver".

And the answer was, winters are getting warmer in line with what you predicted what would happen if the change was CO2 driven.

Explain why scientists are staring to distance them selves from CO2 and are now refocusing on Methane? A much more responsive gas, and at a much higher concentration in the atmosphere. Also CO2 is 1.5 times heavier than air so how does it rise?

[cromwell]

My point was that the observed data (that the winter average monthly temps were higher than expected) for your predictions of CO2 driven warming Vs orbital driven warming.

Your OP asked (to paraphrase) "explain to me why are winters getting colder when we would expect them to be warmer if CO2 was the driver".

And the answer was, winters are getting warmer in line with what you predicted what would happen if the change was CO2 driven.

The climate has always changed,if the whole of the UK ceased to exist it wouldn't make any difference,the massive problem isn't climate change its population.

[BeElBeeBub]

My point was that the observed data (that the winter average monthly temps were higher than expected) for your predictions of CO2 driven warming Vs orbital driven warming.

Your OP asked (to paraphrase) "explain to me why are winters getting colder when we would expect them to be warmer if CO2 was the driver".

And the answer was, winters are getting warmer in line with what you predicted what would happen if the change was CO2 driven.

[Scott777]

Necroing this thread as we now have the data for the period in question.

According to nicks proposal, co2 driven warming would see an increase in temps across the year whilst an orbital driven warming would see a bigger variation in temps to keep a similar average

1) the link to an article about a single cold night rather confuses weather with climate - the argument for co2 driven global warming is absolutely consistent with there been unusual cold events

2) November 2023 was indeed colder than the 30 year average, by -0.1C. however September was 2.3C above average, October was 1.1C above, December 1.8C above, Jan 24 was only 0.1C above Feb 24 was 2.5C and March 24 was 1.1C above.  as you can see, the overall trend was for both summer and winter to be above average temperatures.

The observed data fits the CO2 driven warming hypothesis temperature predictions you gave and contradicts the predictions of the orbital hypothesis.

The conclusion, based on your hypotheses is the the warming we are observing is not driven by orbital changes and is driven by CO2.

A non sequitur conclusion.  There are too many factors which affect climate, just as there are factors which affect the weather.  The sun changes, and that's pretty serious.  The observed changes on Earth are small, and no more than what's expected within unpredictable variation.

[BeElBeeBub]

Necroing this thread as we now have the data for the period in question.

According to nicks proposal, co2 driven warming would see an increase in temps across the year whilst an orbital driven warming would see a bigger variation in temps to keep a similar average

1) the link to an article about a single cold night rather confuses weather with climate - the argument for co2 driven global warming is absolutely consistent with there been unusual cold events 

2) November 2023 was indeed colder than the 30 year average, by -0.1C. however September was 2.3C above average, October was 1.1C above, December 1.8C above, Jan 24 was only 0.1C above Feb 24 was 2.5C and March 24 was 1.1C above.  as you can see, the overall trend was for both summer and winter to be above average temperatures.

The observed data fits the CO2 driven warming hypothesis temperature predictions you gave and contradicts the predictions of the orbital hypothesis.

The conclusion, based on your hypotheses is the the warming we are observing is not driven by orbital changes and is driven by CO2.

[Nick]

Let's get it straight, if the Earth is warming, it warms both in summer and winter... Unless these scientists are saying the CO2 disappears in winter then comes back just in time for summer! Here's the thing, if there is a slight change in azimuth or trajectory of the Earth you will get a bigger variation from winter to summer, if the Earth is warming  due to  CO2 you wouldn't, the greenhouse effect would keep retaining more heat and the whole heat cycle of the Earth would move: it isn't. 

The great anthropogenic believers on here need to explain this one cause as you can see the winters are getting colder. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67564025