Impending machete ban.

[papasmurf]

Private collection have been seized, I have first hand experience of it.
When my sister owned a farm in Maiden Newton (Dorset) I was visiting and about 6 in the morning I heard voices, I went outside and it was a dawn raid with armed police everywhere. They went across the field to the next farm and seized his collection going back 100's of years. All because he had illegally bought an AK47 to add to his collection. There were muskets worth I don't know how much, all destroyed.

There was an illegal AK47, in that type of instance the police seize and confiscate everything. That does not apply to the collection I looked at.

[Nick]

Last weekend I had a conversation with a police officer (firearms and related licencing.) At the time were were looking at an exhibition of the history of the 95th Regiment of Foot, which was at a motorcycle rally. Every sword and bayonet in the (private,) collection is technically illegal. The likelyhood of seizure and legal action is zero. The same apparently goes for my family heirloom machete, which after research is worth over £500 due to its historical significance.  There being a law and the police bothering to enforce it are two very different things.

Private collection have been seized, I have first hand experience of it. 
When my sister owned a farm in Maiden Newton (Dorset) I was visiting and about 6 in the morning I heard voices, I went outside and it was a dawn raid with armed police everywhere. They went across the field to the next farm and seized his collection going back 100's of years. All because he had illegally bought an AK47 to add to his collection. There were muskets worth I don't know how much, all destroyed. 

[papasmurf]

Last weekend I had a conversation with a police officer (firearms and related licencing.) At the time were were looking at an exhibition of the history of the 95th Regiment of Foot, which was at a motorcycle rally. Every sword and bayonet in the (private,) collection is technically illegal. The likelyhood of seizure and legal action is zero. The same apparently goes for my family heirloom machete, which after research is worth over £500 due to its historical significance.  There being a law and the police bothering to enforce it are two very different things.

[Unlucky4Sum]

Doesn't actually say the knives in question were zombie knives, just machettes . .

Yep I got that wrong.  I'd got to this case after googling zombie knives deaths but didn't check this was such a case.  

[Unlucky4Sum]

He did seem to have the Merdeas touch -.everything he touched turned to shit

Ken Clarke had a big part in it as well with his 'prison doesn't work' line when Secretary of State for Justice in the coalition government 

[BeElBeeBub]

That is "Failing" Graylings legacy, he effed up the judicial system and probation as well.

He did seem to have the Merdeas touch -.everything he touched turned to shit 

[papasmurf]

Of course if we eff up our prison system so much we can't actually carry out sentance properly,. That's a bad thing.

That is "Failing" Graylings legacy, he effed up the judicial system and probation as well.

[BeElBeeBub]

No the actual headline should be zombie knife ban is a waste of time because you can still possess one in public and be part of a murderous attack and still be free in no time at all.

Doesn't actually say the knives in question were zombie knives, just machettes

Without knowing his exact involvement in the stabbing beyond being present with a knife you can't say where his sentence of 32 months sits on the possible range.

To be fair,. The maximum is 4 years but maybe there were circumstances that reduced the final seance from that number eg guilty plea.

Even the lowest figure of 14 months is not "not time at all" and a 32 month sentance isn't nothing either (remember, even if not in jail he would still be supervised for the entire length of time)

Of course if we eff up our prison system so much we can't actually carry out sentance properly,. That's a bad thing.

Edit having read the sentencing report it apoears the knives used were zombie knives. However the report gives a much better background into the incident. But for some random chances it could have been Gault on trial for the murder of Natty with a baseball bat.

[cromwell]

That woman is talking bollocks, the Daily Misery is making things worse.

Her supposed angel son was a thug member of a gang who chased after another gang sitting on the back of an e-bike wielding a baseball bat (a potential lethal weapon)  The actual killer Neto stabbed him in the arm with guess what, a zombie style knife and he died because of the blood loss from the massive artery ripping these weapons do. 

The kid at the time being released (Natty) supplied the weapon and so is only technically guilty of manslaughter and the sentencing reflected that.

Well worth a read:  https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Natty-and-Neto-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf

Oh I was well aware it was gang related and he was no angel,as regards Natty yes he did supply the weapon that killed the youth but he also was there and in possession of a similar weapon though didn't use it and it's on those grounds I believe he should've got longer.

The fact he didn't use his weapon is neither here nor there in my opinion it was the possession that should've been punished harder

[Unlucky4Sum]

And here's a great example of why such bans are showboating instead of tough long sentences for carrying offensive weapons.

Let out early what a sick joke.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13785809/Mothers-fury-sons-machete-killer-set-freed-just-months-sentenced-Labour-plans-release-prisoners-early.html

That woman is talking bollocks, the Daily Misery is making things worse.

Her supposed angel son was a thug member of a gang who chased after another gang sitting on the back of an e-bike wielding a baseball bat (a potential lethal weapon)  The actual killer Neto stabbed him in the arm with guess what, a zombie style knife and he died because of the blood loss from the massive artery ripping these weapons do.  

The kid at the time being released (Natty) supplied the weapon and so is only technically guilty of manslaughter and the sentencing reflected that.

Well worth a read:  https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Natty-and-Neto-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf

[papasmurf]

That headline (unsurprisingly from the DM). Is incredibly deceptive.

No change there then.

[cromwell]

That headline (unsurprisingly from the DM). Is incredibly deceptive.

Looking at you get the impression that someone who murdered someone has been released scott free after a few months in prison.

In fact:

- Prisoner did not stab the victim but was present at the time (and also armed)
- Was sentenced (preumably under some joint enterprise or gang related law) to 32 months and therefore would be eligible for release after 16months.
- Had served 14 months already as was jailed before sentencing.

Actual headline should be "gang member involved in killing released 2 months early due to prison overcrowding"

It's not ideal he's being released and I don't have high hopes he has reformed his ways.  But to be honest his reformation was always unlikely under the present system.


As an aside from this a friend's wife is a parole officer and I had an interesting chat with her a while back.  I didn't (and I suspect most don't) realise that prisoners have an automatic parole hearing half way though (I think it's now 2/3 in some cases) but if released they are still under supervision for the remainder and can be recalled at any time for breaches. For "life sentence" prisoners that supervision is for life even though they aren't in jail for life. This is why the probation service is a critical part of the justice system, as if not more important than the prison part. And it was absolutely butchered by the reforms brought in by Grayling.

No the actual headline should be zombie knife ban is a waste of time because you can still possess one in public and be part of a murderous attack and still be free in no time at all.

[BeElBeeBub]

And here's a great example of why such bans are showboating instead of tough long sentences for carrying offensive weapons.

Let out early what a sick joke.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13785809/Mothers-fury-sons-machete-killer-set-freed-just-months-sentenced-Labour-plans-release-prisoners-early.html

That headline (unsurprisingly from the DM). Is incredibly deceptive.

Looking at you get the impression that someone who murdered someone has been released scott free after a few months in prison.

In fact:

- Prisoner did not stab the victim but was present at the time (and also armed)
- Was sentenced (preumably under some joint enterprise or gang related law) to 32 months and therefore would be eligible for release after 16months.
- Had served 14 months already as was jailed before sentencing. 

Actual headline should be "gang member involved in killing released 2 months early due to prison overcrowding"

It's not ideal he's being released and I don't have high hopes he has reformed his ways.  But to be honest his reformation was always unlikely under the present system.


As an aside from this a friend's wife is a parole officer and I had an interesting chat with her a while back.  I didn't (and I suspect most don't) realise that prisoners have an automatic parole hearing half way though (I think it's now 2/3 in some cases) but if released they are still under supervision for the remainder and can be recalled at any time for breaches. For "life sentence" prisoners that supervision is for life even though they aren't in jail for life. This is why the probation service is a critical part of the justice system, as if not more important than the prison part. And it was absolutely butchered by the reforms brought in by Grayling.

[BeElBeeBub]

But the harsher gun laws have not cut gun crime by much especially the hand gun ban seems to have achieved practically nothing:-

This is, at best, an extremely disingenuous post. 


You argue 

"harsher gun laws have not cut gun crime by much especially the hand gun ban seems to have achieved practically nothing" 

and then show a graph that

A) shows the relative proportion of types of guns used - the values will always add up to 100 regardless of the number of crimes. 
B) starts a decade after the handgun ban.

Of you used a graph from the same report that shows the number of recorded offenses since 2002 (ban was mid late 90's).it would show offenses fell by 40 to 50% (they did rise to a peak in the years after the ban but quickly fell back) 

[cromwell]

And here's a great example of why such bans are showboating instead of tough long sentences for carrying offensive weapons.

Let out early what a sick joke.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13785809/Mothers-fury-sons-machete-killer-set-freed-just-months-sentenced-Labour-plans-release-prisoners-early.html