If you could have a word in gods ear

[johnofgwent]

I knew it well.



The winter of discontent saw the dead go unburied as pickets barred the way for funeral directors vehicles to collect the dead.



One of my grandmother's relatives was among them



I went over to university hospital where I had an office, having just graduated, and told the plod watching the pickets I was going to start the JCB some builders had left, drive it straight through the pucket line and the pickets if they were stupid enough not to move, and then smash down the doors to the morgue if it was not unlocked, because by Satan's horns my great uncle was going to be taken by the funeral director who had the legal papers to take him to his funeral and if that meant others joined him so be it.



I don't think they quite believed me



But they stood back - possibly in disbelief - as I put the bucket straight through the braziers scattering pickets in all directions.



Taking the lump hammer from the toolkit, I dismounted,banged  the locked door with the shaft and shouted through it that we were going to serve the papers and take my relative to his burial with or without their cooperation ....



As I restarted the JCB the doors opened and a couple of gorillas working for the NHS came out, took the paperwork from the undertaker and took him inside and a while later shook his hand as he departed with his grisly cargo.



I parked the JCB, thanked the plod and drove off behind the blacked out van.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I also feel Lucifer is more attentive. After Maggie T threw me on the dole after I dedicated eight years of my life to my dream career, I used John Dee's (??) mediaeval incantation to request a favour of his servant Lucifuge.



Nothing TOO dramatic

Yeah but recall that year of 1979. Did you ever watch the TV then? There were Red Robbos on every 6 o/c news and thousands of "workers" (sic) standing next to oil drum fires. The previous government had "created more jobs" and it was these government jobs which were not being paid for by the "workers" because the "workers" were "working" to stop workers from working!



Maggie was like an accountant. She saw the outgoing bills and saw the Inland Revenue receipts and the state of the country's bank account.



The mistake though was to disinvest in basic research and to expand the loans and insurance sector of the economy. You see the original idea of financial services was to help the middle class factory owner by such methods such as hedging and so on, but Maggie saw them closing down. So we ended up as a country of' 'buy now, pay later'. Also a country which insures the prole against losses which he is already legally covered for!

[T00ts]

:hattip

What goes on down here, is mostly under our control. Can you imagine how life would be if we had no free choice, but were merely programmed to be "God's serving robot" in every way.

I reckon that the whole idea of producing flawed beings, as we are, and allowing them free choice, allows for a hugely interesting scenario, which if I had created it, I'd be pretty pleased.

He's left us plenty of puzzles to ponder, diseases to research and try to fix, and we are so good at creating conflicts and wars, He doesn't need to help with that.



Now the sermon bit. For those that believe in Jesus Christ, and are guided by the Holy Spirit, the bar is much higher than 10 commandments. For those people the Commandments given to the Jews are obsolete. (Read Romans 7 if you don't believe me). Being obedient to the Holy Spirit is much harder, and no one who does that will break the commandments.

 :hattip

[Barry]

Oh NO Toots speaking for myself that's not *my* line at all. I'm not an atheist. I believed there was a god worthy of worshipping. Now I turn my back on the jealous, bitchy bastard, because any supreme being that allows the shit that goes on down here to go unpunished doesn't deserve worshippers.



And on the subject of his followers, again I thought I had it sussed but I've come to see that an eternity with that lot of pompous holier than thou prigs IS hell.

What goes on down here, is mostly under our control. Can you imagine how life would be if we had no free choice, but were merely programmed to be "God's serving robot" in every way.

I reckon that the whole idea of producing flawed beings, as we are, and allowing them free choice, allows for a hugely interesting scenario, which if I had created it, I'd be pretty pleased.

He's left us plenty of puzzles to ponder, diseases to research and try to fix, and we are so good at creating conflicts and wars, He doesn't need to help with that.



Now the sermon bit. For those that believe in Jesus Christ, and are guided by the Holy Spirit, the bar is much higher than 10 commandments. For those people the Commandments given to the Jews are obsolete. (Read Romans 7 if you don't believe me). Being obedient to the Holy Spirit is much harder, and no one who does that will break the commandments.

[Ciaphas]

'You shall maintain your personal hygeine as much as is humanly possible'

[johnofgwent]

Im not 100% sure of anything



Except that to spend a microsecond of any afterlife with any of the pompous mysogynists who rock.up.to the fundie godhouse a little way up the road is my definition of hell.



I also feel Lucifer is more attentive. After Maggie T threw me on the dole after I dedicated eight years of my life to my dream career, I used John Dee's (??) mediaeval incantation to request a favour of his servant Lucifuge.



Nothing TOO dramatic



Just that her offspring die alone, painfully, and preferably publicly, in some backwater shit hole.



Did, or did not, a tinpot dictator of a hell hole on earth try to execute Mark a few years back ??



At least that shows me he's trying to help.

[T00ts]

Oh NO Toots speaking for myself that's not *my* line at all. I'm not an atheist. I believed there was a god worthy of worshipping. Now I turn my back on the jealous, bitchy bastard, because any supreme being that allows the shit that goes on down here to go unpunished doesn't deserve worshippers.



And on the subject of his followers, again I thought I had it sussed but I've come to see that an eternity with that lot of pompous holier than thou prigs IS hell.

So are you saying you are 100% sure? I am certain that God  is more fair minded than any of us mere mortals can begin to imagine. I am also certain that He loves us in exactly the same way that we love our children. So the question would be - how often have you been tempted to 'save' your children from themselves or made yourself stand back and let them learn from their mistakes?

Horrid things happen but not by God's deeds but mankind's. It's called consequences. He has had to stand back to allow us to learn. We have just one job here on earth and that is to love God above all things and to obey His laws to the very best of our ability. Our Eternal existence depends on it = consequences.

I try not to be a holier than thou prig - I am as flawed as anyone, but I do try as much as I can.

[johnofgwent]

I get it - you don't believe. The point is that you have choice. I will say to you what I have said to others. We can compare notes later. One of us is right. Are you 100% sure it's you?  

Oh NO Toots speaking for myself that's not *my* line at all. I'm not an atheist. I believed there was a god worthy of worshipping. Now I turn my back on the jealous, bitchy bastard, because any supreme being that allows the shit that goes on down here to go unpunished doesn't deserve worshippers.



And on the subject of his followers, again I thought I had it sussed but I've come to see that an eternity with that lot of pompous holier than thou prigs IS hell.

[johnofgwent]

I'll be honest Toots, the god of the Torah is a pretty spiteful bastard. The whole if the first maybe 30% of the old testament is pretty much a history of how one bunch of people did some pretty shitty things to another lot on the grounds God appeared in a vision to their king, or their kings holy man, and commanded it happen. And vindictive as hell too. Satan have mercy on you if you wore the wrong type of materials together ... Because God certainly didn't.

[T00ts]

I have studied the first 2 refs. My belief is that the bible was written not just as a history of mankind but also as a guide and a warning of the consequences of lack of belief. It has to be remembered that there is always a back story to any of God's actions. Most of the time He is testing the faith of those in the story.

The trouble is Toots, God is always testing faith and handing out warnings with the result that He comes over as self centred, mean spirited and rather insecure.

I get it - you don't believe. The point is that you have choice. I will say to you what I have said to others. We can compare notes later. One of us is right. Are you 100% sure it's you?  

[Borchester]

I have studied the first 2 refs. My belief is that the bible was written not just as a history of mankind but also as a guide and a warning of the consequences of lack of belief. It has to be remembered that there is always a back story to any of God's actions. Most of the time He is testing the faith of those in the story.

The trouble is Toots, God is always testing faith and handing out warnings with the result that He comes over as self centred, mean spirited and rather insecure.

[Baron von Lotsov]

At different times in the Old Testament, God commands infanticide, rape and slavery.  But He put His holy feet up on the seventh day, so that's all right then.

The ten commandments are rules for you. What god does is not the same as what your rules are. For example, the bible states god is a jealous god and does not like worship of other gods, whereas for you, jealousy is a sin. You see god is top and you are not, and never will be. If you try and rise to a position where you act as if you are on par with god, e.g. you go around judging people, or perhaps you are a member of the House of Lords, then you are kind of trying to usurp the almighty and you will find out how different you are. For example when Blair was on some diplomatic mission his plane was struck by lightening. You know how he was: it was kind of Blair revised version, and clearly god must have thought, that man is acting above his station, lets remind him!

[T00ts]

I have studied the first 2 refs. My belief is that the bible was written not just as a history of mankind but also as a guide and a warning of the consequences of lack of belief. It has to be remembered that there is always a back story to any of God's actions. Most of the time He is testing the faith of those in the story.



1 Samuel 15:3 The people were angry with the judges appointed at that time. They were not good judges even though they were the Prophet Samuel's sons and the people wanted a king instead believing it would improve the situation. Samuel sought guidance of the Lord and Saul, a righteous man, became king.

At first Saul was great - in this verse God remembered that the Amalekites had treated Israel badly and this was the consequence for them. At the same time God was testing Saul that he would obey every one of God's commands. Sadly he did not destroy everything as commanded and saved the best lambs and other things thus increasing his wealth so Samuel was distraught. Eventually Saul was punished.



Judges 11:30-39 I'm not sure why you include this as an example of God's failings. Jephthah made a vow of his own choice that if God helped him in his battle he would sacrifice whatever came through the door on his return. I am sure he expected an animal or something, but it was his only daughter. After a short delay he carried out his promise. Having made the vow of his own free will, God then tested him to the limit and he passed. Abraham was similarly tested although  let off in time.



Both these stories seem cruel to us. I think we have to commit them to their time rather than judge them on today's accepted standards. We will all die, I have total faith in the promise that Jesus' death fulfilled the plan for us all to have eternal life. On that basis, death is simply a call home. The method might be challenging while it lasts but the end is ok. I can only imagine that from where God is standing His children were coming home on His commands. We are not to know what earthly future he was saving those who were innocent from.



I haven't yet looked at the other quotes. Do you want me to go on?

[T00ts]

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:3



And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering...

And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances...

And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: Judges 11:30-39



Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9



In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Joshua the son of Nun. Kings 16:34



If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, [Not commanding rape in this case, but setting a pretty low price on it] Deuteronomy 22:28-29



Etc, etc.

Thank you give me time to look them up and read around them.

[Paulus de B]

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:3



And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering...

And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances...

And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: Judges 11:30-39



Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9



In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Joshua the son of Nun. Kings 16:34



If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, [Not commanding rape in this case, but setting a pretty low price on it] Deuteronomy 22:28-29



Etc, etc.