Lying

[Nalaar]

Many have argued that in some cases, lies are important for the smooth functioning of society and maintaining social interactions, but of course it depends on the purpose and possible consequences e.g. telling someone you like their jumper when actually you don't, but you don't really care either way, is not really harmful in most people's view as in any case it's a matter of individual opinion.

I maintain that social interactions are better when the people involved aren't lying to each other.

Another example could be the Apollo 13 mission.  Approaching re-entry, the astronauts were asking what further issues were ahead of them.  Mission control had been discussing that they did not know whether the heat shield had been damaged by the explosion earlier in the mission.  The question was "is there anything they can do about it?".  The answer was no so it was decided not to tell them.

This example is a very clear violation IMO. The Astronauts themselves could of had ideas or input into the situation that could of helped. Those at mission control couldn't think of a reason themselves, so chose to lie, denying the Astronauts input.

Also - doctors often have to make real life judgements about how honest to be with patients about their prognosis - they will take into account the patient's behaviour and apparent character in these decisions.  They won't directly lie but they might skirt around delivering the complete frank truth depending on the patient.

There are plenty of examples of doctors lying to patients, non of which stand up to scrutiny, as ultimately they (like mission control earlier) are denying the patient autonomy in their decision making, and input.

[Javert]

I think quite a few psychologists and sociologists would take issue with the idea that all lies are wrong.  



Many have argued that in some cases, lies are important for the smooth functioning of society and maintaining social interactions, but of course it depends on the purpose and possible consequences e.g. telling someone you like their jumper when actually you don't, but you don't really care either way, is not really harmful in most people's view as in any case it's a matter of individual opinion.



Some might even argue it could be an act of love in certain situations.



Another example could be the Apollo 13 mission.  Approaching re-entry, the astronauts were asking what further issues were ahead of them.  Mission control had been discussing that they did not know whether the heat shield had been damaged by the explosion earlier in the mission.  The question was "is there anything they can do about it?".  The answer was no so it was decided not to tell them.



Another comic exploration of this can be seen in the movie "The Invention of Lying" which I quite enjoyed but it's with Ricky Gervais who I know is a bit of a marmite performer for many.



Also - doctors often have to make real life judgements about how honest to be with patients about their prognosis - they will take into account the patient's behaviour and apparent character in these decisions.  They won't directly lie but they might skirt around delivering the complete frank truth depending on the patient.

[Nalaar]

That flowering up is not quite lying but is often deceit.

I would say it very much is lying.



Some illusory PR genius has convinced people that "white lies aren't really lies". They are, and do much more damage than anyone telling a "white lie" would realise at the moment of telling.

[Barry]

Good topic.



What would a society without lies look like? Completely different, I'm sure. Society actually encourages lies, when people have to say "no", for instance, to cushion it they might lie.

"Would you like to come to my party next Friday?"

Considers for a minute, doesn't really like parties, but doesn't want to lose a friend.

Could say, "No, thankyou", but goes for, "Sorry, I've got a prior engagement".



Plain speech is also unacceptable to some. We flower phrases up rather than tell the plain truth in the misguided perception that we might be protecting them from offence or rejection. That flowering up is not quite lying but is often deceit.

[T00ts]

To open with an opening excerpt from the book "Lying" by Sam Harris.







The premise of the book is a simple one - Lying is unnecessary, it is essentially an act of aggression, and yet many people will not think twice before lying to their friends, family, and loved ones, much less strangers. Consider what lies you have told (possibly even today!) and by contrast what truths you could of told.

There is a saying 'Satan is the father of all lies'. I guess that is the problem.

[Nalaar]

To open with an opening excerpt from the book "Lying" by Sam Harris.

Among the many paradoxes of human life, this is perhaps the most peculiar and consequential: We often behave in ways that are guaranteed to make us unhappy. Many of us spend our lives marching with open eyes toward remorse, regret, guilt, and disappointment.And nowhere do our injuries seem more casually self-inflicted, or the suffering we create more disproportionate to the needs of the moment, than in the lies we tell to other human beings.

The premise of the book is a simple one - Lying is unnecessary, it is essentially an act of aggression, and yet many people will not think twice before lying to their friends, family, and loved ones, much less strangers. Consider what lies you have told (possibly even today!) and by contrast what truths you could of told.