Merkel worries we will work alongside China & USA and become competitive

[Ciaphas]

Richard Branson did apparently sue the NHS, of which I was unaware until I read this post. However, it is a flawed outsourcing process that opened up the NHS to be sued, and was nothing to do with worldwide markets, was it? If the NHS had not awarded contracts incorrectly it would not have been open to litigation.

Having said all that, I don't like privatisation in the NHS, I'd kick out Interserve for a start.

The case was settled out of court so the allegation that there were serious flaws in the procurement has never been investigated, or at least the findings not shared.



We can only speculate why the NHS choose to settle out of court which is itself disguisting since the public shouldn't being kept in the dark on why £2m which should have been spent on caring for patients ended up in Virgins pocket.



Since we don't know why they settled out of court we've no idea if the issue Virgjn were able to exploit was dealt with.

[papasmurf]

If a trade deal specifically states that certain products are off limits the ISDS can do nothing.

There will be no such trade deal possible with America.

[Nick]

The problem is ISDS, America has never lost a case, and frankly Boris and the Tories are stupid enough to sigh a trade agreement with ISDS in it.

(Canada has been regretting a trade deal with America because of ISDS shortly after signing a trade agreement.)

If a trade deal specifically states that certain products are off limits the ISDS can do nothing.

[papasmurf]

As it's been said, if certain drugs are more expensive why would the NHS buy them? The point is you're trying say if we make a trade deal with the US we have to let them into the NHS which just isn't true.

The problem is ISDS, America has never lost a case, and frankly Boris and the Tories are stupid enough to sigh a trade agreement with ISDS in it.

(Canada has been regretting a trade deal with America because of ISDS shortly after signing a trade agreement.)

[Nick]

But drugs are FAR more expensive in the USA than they are in Britain. I provided a reference for that. Any trade agreement with America will expose Britain to massive increases in the cost of drugs and the eventual takeover of the NHS by American companies.

America has never lost an Investor State Dispute Settlement case, (Airbus being the latest victim.)

This is not scare mongering, plus several senior Tories and current ministers want the NHS privatised.

As it's been said, if certain drugs are more expensive why would the NHS buy them? The point is you're trying say if we make a trade deal with the US we have to let them into the NHS which just isn't true.

[papasmurf]

The comparative supermarket prices for aspirin, codeine, paracetamol etc, is hardly indicative of the vast price differences for pharmaceuticals used to treat serious and chronic conditions. In the US, medical insurance funds band together to negotiate the prices they will reimburse for prescription only medication.

Recent Mirror and BBC reports clearly show the differences:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/price-differences-between-uk-shows-18973739">https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-18973739">https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/price-differences-between-uk-shows-18973739

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48929882">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48929882



The NHS encourages wide use of generic medication and will not use new drugs which don't offer much better value...

Precisely. Generics are cheap in Britain anyway,

[patman post]

I guess you've never lived in the States where the price of drugs is a quarter of what we pay. The only way the US would get a contract would be to undercut the opposition which they could do blindfolded on drugs.

The comparative supermarket prices for aspirin, codeine, paracetamol etc, is hardly indicative of the vast price differences for pharmaceuticals used to treat serious and chronic conditions. In the US, medical insurance funds band together to negotiate the prices they will reimburse for prescription only medication.

Recent Mirror and BBC reports clearly show the differences:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/price-differences-between-uk-shows-18973739">https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-18973739">https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/price-differences-between-uk-shows-18973739

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48929882">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48929882



The NHS encourages wide use of generic medication and will not use new drugs which don't offer much better value...

[Barry]

Why would we choose to buy drugs from the USA if they are more expensive? We can choose cheaper sources. India, Europe, China, not to mention the fact we make a lot of our own.

[papasmurf]

As for drugs, I'm sure they use Brufen and the like inside hospitals so the cheap drugs point is pertinent.

But drugs are FAR more expensive in the USA than they are in Britain. I provided a reference for that. Any trade agreement with America will expose Britain to massive increases in the cost of drugs and the eventual takeover of the NHS by American companies.

America has never lost an Investor State Dispute Settlement case, (Airbus being the latest victim.)

This is not scare mongering, plus several senior Tories and current ministers want the NHS privatised.

[Nick]

There is nothing hysterical about it. American health insurance companies have been trying to take over the NHS since the 1990s. (They already have some NHS contracts.)

I also wonder how you have managed not to see the row about it.



Some background:-



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527328">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527328



The there is this, they would also like to take over part of the UK welfare system:-



https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmworpen/401/3021203.htm">https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... 021203.htm">https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmworpen/401/3021203.htm

The US runs a system called CoPay where you pay a portion on the total bill. You also get an invoice off every single dept. The Ambulance service will bill you, the Dr, the surgeon will bill you. This is not coming to the NHS, we pay NIC's as Barry has eluded to and it is most definitely hysterical to suggest it is.



As for drugs, I'm sure they use Brufen and the like inside hospitals so the cheap drugs point is pertinent.

[Borchester]

There is nothing hysterical about it. American health insurance companies have been trying to take over the NHS since the 1990s. (They already have some NHS contracts.)

And how much has your NIC contributions increased by because the Americans won some NHS contracts ?

[T00ts]

Our NHS is a mess and we do ourselves a dis-service by hanging onto the ridiculous organisational nightmare that it has become. If no-one can drag it kicking and screaming into this century and sort out it's madness then we will never have a medical service that keeps up with other countries and gives us value for money.

[papasmurf]

No point in debating if your just going to throw hysterical nonsense into the mix. Show me one single thread of EVIDENCE that shows where the NHS is going to become an arm of an American insurance company.

There is nothing hysterical about it. American health insurance companies have been trying to take over the NHS since the 1990s. (They already have some NHS contracts.)

I also wonder how you have managed not to see the row about it.



Some background:-



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527328">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527328



The there is this, they would also like to take over part of the UK welfare system:-



https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmworpen/401/3021203.htm">https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... 021203.htm">https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmworpen/401/3021203.htm

[Borchester]

The problem we face with the NHS is its PR machine, which continues to present it as a band of gallant, overworked and underpaid medics forced to perform open heart surgery on kitchen tables. In practise it has close on two million staff and uses up about a sixth of this country's tax revenues.



Fortunately for us, although the NHS is in the habit of telling us a few harmless porkies about how wonderful it is, the aforementioned PR department is also pretty good at screaming blue murder whenever a drug company suggests a penny price increase in the cost of medication. I saw a YouTube video (forgotten the name but it is by a Yank historian who is into the Mongols) a while back and he made the point that US pharmaceutical companies can make mega bucks because they don't face the problem of dealing with the NHS's centralised drug buying department.



So, to make a short story as long as possible..



(a) I don't care who supplies my metformin



(b) If the Americans can make a profit selling medication to the UK then good luck to them. But I don't see how they are going to manage it.

[Cassie]

No point in debating if your just going to throw hysterical nonsense into the mix. Show me one single thread of EVIDENCE that shows where the NHS is going to become an arm of an American insurance company.

But Corbyn said so, so it must be true.  (Insert Tongue-in-cheek smiley here.)