uk coronavirus deaths at 41 thousand among worst in world

[Borg Refinery]

Don't be so condescending, Thomas. I read every word of every thread.  :shock:

And Dynamis, there's no such thing as unfair post, particularly in response to such an aggressive player as Thomas.

But you've imho misrepresented his position a bit, which you don't usually do.. because you're one of the better posters. If a fat slab of shite dropped dead in the middle of westminster, chances are he'd be left to rot there for a long while, because they really don't give a stuff what happens to folks in 'great' Britain.



Or That poor homeless bloke who died right outside parliament; that shows how little they regard human life FFS.



Just saying. I think they think human life is worth nothing..

[johnofgwent]

True, but aren't there countries with even higher population density than the UK who have done better with the pandemic (at least up to now).

I am not sure. I will look into that.



The country I am surprised about is india.



Given the total disregard for life and welfare of the poor and the known fact that blacks and asians are up to six times more likely to have organ failures than whites which is why the death rate in the uk is some three times higher for blacks and ethnics, it astound me that india is not top if the list, although maybe they're just dropping dead in the woods they walk to to shit every morning and nobody bothers counting them

[Barry]

Don't be so condescending, Thomas. I read every word of every thread.  :shock:

And Dynamis, there's no such thing as unfair post, particularly in response to such an aggressive player as Thomas.

[Thomas]

Some say people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

How did the virus get here?

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-52599745">Coronavirus: Sixth person dies at Skye care home

Was it all down to letting Johnny Foreigner in and/or crap government? If so, take a look at yourself.

OR - you might think it's stupid trying to politicise a virus which doesn't care whether you vote Labour, Tory, SNP or Jedi Master.

I know you dont know much about scotland barry , other than it being one big holiday park for english tourists , but tell me , how does this desperate google search of some story about a skye care home equate with people in glass houses not throwing stones?



Have you actually read the thread and johns discussion with myself on the emphasis of controlling borders? You do realise barry the controls of scotland , and wider uk borders is a westminster issue , not a scottish gov devolved issue?



So how can we take a look at ourseleves when we have no say and no power over who comes into our country?



 :roll: No one more than myself would love to see my country independent and in control of who comes in , like any other ordinary independent nation. Until then  , we are at the mercy of idiots in your country who allowed 3.1 miilion people through one london airports in march alone , while cheerleaders like you bleated that it was pointless checking or quarantining them like others nations around the world were doing.



Do try and keep up barry.



The virus got into scotland from your country and the open border between the two of us. You didnt see thousands of spainish flock to france and infect them did you , but we had the english all going on a jolly up into our coutnry , with jug ears your royal prince and his retinue alone infecting much of north east scotland , and you have the cheek to ask how did the virus get here?



If you had shut down that shithole capital city of yours back in february as you were advised to do , not only would there have been a good chance you wouldnt have infected scotland , but much of the rest of england and wales too.

[Javert]

The uk has one sixth the population of the USA CRAMMED INTO ONE FORTIETH THE LAND MASS.

True, but aren't there countries with even higher population density than the UK who have done better with the pandemic (at least up to now).

[Borg Refinery]

Some say people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

How did the virus get here? Was it all down to letting Johnny Foreigner in and/or crap government? If so, take a look at yourself.

OR - you might think it's stupid trying to politicise a virus which doesn't care whether you vote Labour, Tory, SNP or Jedi Master.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-52599745">Coronavirus: Sixth person dies at Skye care home

Unfair post imho Barry.



He's not politicising it, he's one of the folks on here to lambast every party - incl. the SNP where they falter.



It's both of the things you mentioned as he said; bad admin by the govt and not shutting down OR AT LEAST screening the borders very carefully.



FFS look what this silly prat is telling us:



"Left Foot Forward

TOGGLE NAVIGATION

TrendingBrexit EU housing Health



 

Priti Patel: We don't know how many people coming into UK have coronavirus

Josiah Mortimer

 29 April, 2020 (2 weeks ago)

 Left Foot Forward

"We do not have an estimate" says the Home Secretary.





Share

Tweet

The Home Secretary has admitted that the government do not know how many people coming into the country have coronavirus.



Speaking to the Home Affairs select committee, Priti Patel told MPs: "We don't have the data...There is no testing at the border."



She added: "Our overall approach on travel has consistently been advised by [scientific advisory group] SAGE."



But the SAGE advice has not been published – nor have the select committee members seen the evidence.



On Friday, a total of 9,906 people entered the country. There is no testing at the border, or a quarantine period for those coming in,



Oxford University academics told the FT earlier this month that more than 130 countries have introduced some form of travel restrictions since the coronavirus outbreak began. These include screening, quarantine and bans on travel from high risk areas. "As a result, at least 90 per cent of the global population lives in countries with restrictions on non-citizens and non-residents arriving from abroad," the paper reported.



The Home Secretary said the rules on coming into the UK are 'under discussion...we are reviewing everything'.



The Home Office permanent secretary Shona Dunn confirmed: "We do not have an estimate" of people coming into the country with coronavirus.



The Home Secretary said 0.5% passengers arriving in UK were estimated to have coronavirus as of the 23rd March...but the department said they didn't have the total number or any figures from April.



Conservative MP Ruth Edwards challenged Patel, saying the British public will ask: "Why am I having to stay home, if we've got people arriving in from coronavirus hot-spots every day with no quarantine measures at all?"



"The Home Office has not challenged or quizzed any of the advice they've been given" said select committee chair Yvette Cooper.



Committee member Stephen Doughty MP said most of the public would find it 'baffling' as to why there are few restrictions on flights in the UK."



Come on Barry, be reasonable...is that good governance??? We can play whataboutery all we like, but it's her and this lot in charge - no one else.

[Barry]

You should have more easily been able to control the spread of the virus , despite all the overcrowding , 80% of covid 19 deaths up to end march was in greater london only.



Your government continued to allow the unrestricted access to the uk to foreigners when every other nation was restricting access right up till the other week.



In the western world , if the uk is second to a massive nation like the usa , which is more comparable to the european union , in terms of covd 19 deaths then this is becasue of a dereliction of duty by a crap government rather than overcrowding in a few cities.

Some say people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

How did the virus get here?

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-52599745">Coronavirus: Sixth person dies at Skye care home

Was it all down to letting Johnny Foreigner in and/or crap government? If so, take a look at yourself.

OR - you might think it's stupid trying to politicise a virus which doesn't care whether you vote Labour, Tory, SNP or Jedi Master.

[Thomas]

But in truth I feel you hit the nail on the head in your second sentence.



The uk has one sixth the population of the USA CRAMMED INTO ONE FORTIETH THE LAND MASS.



Now I freely admit my experience of the United states is severely limited. But I have stood in Seattle, the main port of the north western coast, on a market day, and I tell you now its nothing like as crowded as Cardiff.



And as for Alaska, christ I could walk a whole week and not see another soul.



Which is why I'm discounting it.



Sorry, my experience of a main city on the north west coast with the headquarters of Boeing as a main employer is it's about as crowded as Bristol on a saturday when City are playing away....

I take on board what you are saying john , but surely its more easy to control a tiny island off the coast of a continent , than control a massive  landlocked country like the usa which is more comparable to europe than the uk?



I keep saying this time and again , england makes up 40% of the land of these islands but as you say is totally crammed  specifically in the midlands and south east , and has around 79% of these islands population in a country that could fit inside your near european neighbour france five times over.



You should have more easily been able to control the spread of the virus , despite all the overcrowding , 80% of covid 19 deaths up to end march was in greater london only.



Your government continued to allow the unrestricted access to the uk to foreigners when every other nation was restricting access right up till the other week.



In the western world , if the uk is second to a massive nation like the usa , which is more comparable to the european union , in terms of covd 19 deaths then this is becasue of a dereliction of duty by a crap government rather than overcrowding in a few cities.



From your perspective john , i dont have much hope of the tories stopping immigration , legal or otherwise , if they cant control your borders during a world wide pandemic and have to be dragged kicking and screaming to clamp down un unrestricted access to foreigners in the process.

[johnofgwent]

If true it would make the uk the second worst state in the entire world after the united states. A small island off the coast of europe that could fit inside the state of texas , only just behind the 330 million inhabitant USA , which is 40 times bigger than the uk and has 6 times the population.

But in truth I feel you hit the nail on the head in your second sentence.



The uk has one sixth the population of the USA CRAMMED INTO ONE FORTIETH THE LAND MASS.



Now I freely admit my experience of the United states is severely limited. But I have stood in Seattle, the main port of the north western coast, on a market day, and I tell you now its nothing like as crowded as Cardiff.



And as for Alaska, christ I could walk a whole week and not see another soul.



Which is why I'm discounting it.



Sorry, my experience of a main city on the north west coast with the headquarters of Boeing as a main employer is it's about as crowded as Bristol on a saturday when City are playing away....

[Thomas]

Dunno Tommy. As I have said before, I wish you well on the independence business, but do you really feel up to handling your own finances? I know that we Sassenachs are a bunch of thieving bastards etc etc, but by your own admission, the Scots are pretty sh*t negotiators. Without Mother England's guiding hand I can see Wee Krankie loading up on third hand PPE from some Romanian slaughter house. "Hoots man," she will cry, "we can use the blood and brains to make black pudding andsave on the hospitals' food bills"

Thieving barstewards?



Thats an understatement . There was a wee argentinian guy who once posted on our old forum , and i think it was him who told me that the south americans call the english the spanish word for "seagull".



I said why is that?



He said , " it cause they fly around the world nicking peoples land and money and shitting on them."

the Scots are pretty sh*t negotiators. Without Mother England's guiding hand I can see Wee Krankie loading up on third hand PPE from some Romanian slaughter house. "Hoots man," she will cry, "we can use the blood and brains to make black pudding andsave on the hospitals' food bills"

I dont think you are in any position to slag off anyone else do you borkie?



Worst covid 19 death rate in europe and every cant from the chinese to the turks ripping you off left right and centre regarding dodgy prtective equipment , and a prime minister who ran around shaking hands with everyone during a pandemic .



Scotland could be turned into a desert with wee wullie winky in charge and we would stil be slightly better off than you muppets and yer butcher apron flag waving never ending we won the war shite. ::

[Borchester]

so what you saying then .......that we need independence to make our own choices free of mother england ?



Couldnt agree more.

Dunno Tommy. As I have said before, I wish you well on the independence business, but do you really feel up to handling your own finances? I know that we Sassenachs are a bunch of thieving bastards etc etc, but by your own admission, the Scots are pretty shit negotiators. Without Mother England's guiding hand I can see Wee Krankie loading up on third hand PPE from some Romanian slaughter house. "Hoots man," she will cry, "we can use the blood and brains to make black pudding andsave on the hospitals' food bills"

[T00ts]

Aren't we all trying to make judgements too soon? The numbers are what they are now - at this moment. We have no idea about honesty, accuracy or even how many have died as a ratio of infection. Here we have no real honest figures  either of infection or deaths. Without tests either before or after demise how can we be sure? More than that we are no-where near the end. We may well have a lot of deaths now but until someone can determine how many have been infected we don't know if our numbers are on the way up or down. We are all guessing in the dark. Until some boffin somewhere comes up with a cure/vaccine we are playing the viruses game not ours.



Who is to say that this virus will be dead and gone by next year? How will we know it hasn't changed umpteen times and will be back for a second bite? It's nonsense to compare any other countries with each other or ourselves. Lock downs just slow it down - until everyone gets it how can we say we have won? The decisions here first to test and track and trace then to hope for herd immunity meant we fell between two concepts and as a result we have achieved the least possible. Perhaps, just perhaps, a higher %age of people have had the virus already. We will never know.



I think we have been organised to make sure that the NHS could cope, but that was on the premise that they would be able to cure the majority of cases. That was the lie that covered the world. I don't think anyone quite believed that Western medicine would be almost useless with severe cases.

[Thomas]

To make matters worse, all the second rate equipment is fobbed off on NHS Scotland

so what you saying then .......that we need independence to make our own choices free of mother england ?



Couldnt agree more.

[Borchester]

Good Thread on PPE......









https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252701841135226880.html">https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252 ... 26880.html">https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252701841135226880.html





on top of that we have the nightingale hospital in london.......







https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1252836154400890880">https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status ... 4400890880">https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1252836154400890880



This isnt just about some macabre point scoring over deaths and transparency of figures in the uk . In practically every aspect of this coronavirus pandemic , the uk  , and particularly the areas the westminster government hold direct control over like the english nhs  , the uk is becoming renowned throughout the western civilised world as having an incompetent government and the worse response.



I remember watching Alec Salmond on question time many many years ago , from liverpool , ripping labours peter hain to shreds in the process ,and telling the good people of liverpool and england not to trust either labour or conservatives with your health system.



He hasnt been wrong.

To make matters worse, all the second rate equipment is fobbed off on NHS Scotland

[Thomas]

Good Thread on PPE......

Spent the day talking to PPE suppliers/medical staff



The picture which emerges is an English procurement system which has major issues at both national and local level



Not all these problems began during this crisis, some seeds sown a v long time ago



This is what's happening

First though we need to remember that not everywhere has problems



We need to remember that those which do don't have problems in everything



and that the govt is right there is a huge demand surge



That said...

there's no getting away from it, talk to PPE suppliers about the English NHS procurement system and they groan



It's a problem at the both national and local level

At the local level, we now have what you might say is an absurd situation where NHS trusts are competing against each other, sometimes in price terms, to secure PPE.



The situ in England doubtless made worse by Lansley reforms of 2012 Trusts now a patchwork of sovereign bodies.

Spoke to Colin Cram, procurement expert: "bottom line is NHS England's procurement processes are in total chaos, have been for 10 years and now people are dying because of it. Scotland/ Wales don't have the same problem, nothing to do with size, they're just better organised."

Then there's local bureaucracy. Suppliers want payment upfront and need decisions straight away, authorisation processes in various trusts means that's impossible - it often has to go through a chain of people which takes days, so they keep missing the opportunity to buy more

[/b]



https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252701841135226880.html">https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252 ... 26880.html">https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252701841135226880.html





on top of that we have the nightingale hospital in london.......

Just remind me, how many nurses were we short before Covid19? 40,000 is ringing a bell.



So we build a new hospital and no one thought to ask how we are going to staff it?



Keep up, keep up



Nurse shortage causes Nightingale hospital to turn away patients

[/b]



https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1252836154400890880">https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status ... 4400890880">https://twitter.com/alanjstedman/status/1252836154400890880



This isnt just about some macabre point scoring over deaths and transparency of figures in the uk . In practically every aspect of this coronavirus pandemic , the uk  , and particularly the areas the westminster government hold direct control over like the english nhs  , the uk is becoming renowned throughout the western civilised world as having an incompetent government and the worse response.



I remember watching Alec Salmond on question time many many years ago , from liverpool , ripping labours peter hain to shreds in the process ,and telling the good people of liverpool and england not to trust either labour or conservatives with your health system.



He hasnt been wrong.