NHS overtaking Brexit

[Churchill]

I've copied this over from another thread.

My wife did years of hard study in the late 1970's to become a SRN. She worked on and off until 1997 becoming a Staff Nurse and in charge of wards, sometimes a small hospital at night. After that because she was not working in the system for a while her "PIN" became inactive. When she returned to the UK in 2014 she was told she would have to have a year retraining at university to be able to work as a Staff Nurse again. This would cost a lot of money with no assistance from the NHS to re-enter their workforce. That's why she decided to retire. At least she got her meagre NHS pension at age 60 as contracted!

Throwing perfectly good nurses on the scrap heap like that is insanity.

I agree it is stupidity, my wife has no wish to retire even though she suffers bad health severe arthritis of the lower spine from years of lifting and shifting patients being on her feet most of the time, and not able to claim the state pension as expected at the age of 60 has annoyed her to say the least



Some of the staff she works with are in their late 60's early 70's many of the younger members are from abroad.



I don't think some people are aware how long it takes to train nurses and Doctors, for a Nurse it is a three years degree course just to get on the bottom rung, a Doctor seven years, there is no quick fix no matter who is in Government.



Many do not stay the course, in such as large organisation people are constantly leaving, had enough, retiring, unwell or leaving to work abroad

[Barry]

Nothing my wife is a nurse and not born in the UK nor is she a British Citizen, the majority of the NHS workforce are British Citizens but what we do need to do is train more of those who are already here in the UK.

I've copied this over from another thread.

My wife did years of hard study in the late 1970's to become a SRN. She worked on and off until 1997 becoming a Staff Nurse and in charge of wards, sometimes a small hospital at night. After that because she was not working in the system for a while her "PIN" became inactive. When she returned to the UK in 2014 she was told she would have to have a year retraining at university to be able to work as a Staff Nurse again. This would cost a lot of money with no assistance from the NHS to re-enter their workforce. That's why she decided to retire. At least she got her meagre NHS pension at age 60 as contracted!

Throwing perfectly good nurses on the scrap heap like that is insanity.

[Barry]

There's always money for doughnuts in the NHS.

A recruiting event - doughnuts.

A fund raiser for the charity - doughnuts.

Volunteering event - doughnuts.

The budget head for doughnuts is huge. Probably higher than hip replacements and certainly more accessible. I jest, but I'm sure you get the idea.

[Churchill]

:thup:

[Borchester]

I disagree with you on Bevan creating the NHS , a Doctor Hasting back in 1934 outlined the proposal for such a scheme, later it was Beverage a Liberal who planned the whole outline for Social Insurance and Medical care, all of which was interrupted by WW2.



After WW2 ended following Beverages plan Bevan who have been made Heath Minister when Labour won the GE after the war created the Welfare Bill in 1945, which was supported by a cross party agreement both sides of the House agreed the need for it.



Not all Bevans work INHO a joint effort with the full backing of Parliament, not just Labour

According to Chris Renwick in his book "Bread for All," Bevan's main claim to fame was to have the NHS funded out of central taxation. Most of the infra structure was there already but Anuerin, who if he had not be a commie would have done very well as a wheeler dealer in the City, not only glued it all together but twigged that the last thing either patients or his new creation needed was extra and thus expensive layers of bureaucracy handling payments and claims. Amazingly, rather than telling the public he was increasing their income tax, he even had the mother wit to rename it National Insurance.

[Churchill]

I disagree with you on Bevan creating the NHS , a Doctor Hasting back in 1934 outlined the proposal for such a scheme, later it was Beverage a Liberal who planned the whole outline for Social Insurance and Medical care, all of which was interrupted by WW2.



After WW2 ended following Beverages plan Bevan who have been made Heath Minister when Labour won the GE after the war created the Welfare Bill in 1945, which was supported by a cross party agreement both sides of the House agreed the need for it.



Not all Bevans work INHO a joint effort with the full backing of Parliament, not just Labour

[johnofgwent]

What better place to discuss Blainau Gwent than the thread trying to pit the NHS against Brexit



GO READ THIS



https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019-11-23/has-the-labour-party-got-a-valleys-problem">https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019-11- ... ys-problem">https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019-11-23/has-the-labour-party-got-a-valleys-problem



I have a friend of many years standing who lives in the town of Blaina a few miles down the road from NantyGlo, both lie in the next valley along from the one at whose head stands the town of Ebbw Vale, and all three and many others around were, in the 1940's in the constituency of Ebbw Vale which is now the constituency of Blaenau Gwent



The relevance ?



This WAS the second or third safest Labour seat in Wales, the fourth or fifth safest in the whole country. It is the seat that sent Nye Bevan to CREATE the NHS and it is the seat that sent Michael Foot to lead Labour into obscurity for a decade and a half. The constituency is next door to the one that sent Neil Kinnock to lose two elections running.



In the dying years of the last century Tony Blair was persuaded to bring forth a policy whereby being in possession of breasts and a vagina made you a more acceptable candidate in a range of safe seats than anyone no so equipped. These days I think one has to self-identify as having them or wanting them, actual possession is not needed.



As a result of this policy a man who was well liked and well respected for standing up for his constituents was chucked on the scrap heap by a constituency party all too eager to suck party central ass. Thanks to the regulations then in place, since altered, Peter Law was both the MP and the Assembly Member for Blaenau Gwent. In those days the assembly was just starting. Law was evicted from his seat and a woman parachuuted in from Central Office was handed the party ticket, which was an assured seat in the House



Or so they thought.



Law stood as an independent against the Labour Party



One Saturday I found myself driving to Ebbw Vale to take my eldest to show her where the college of further education and the bus and train station were.  As I parked up and walked through the street, a crowd started to run past me. Men RAN the length of the street pausing only to hurl abuse and spit at a semi derelict shop in the high street now strangely open.



"What The F@@@ Is going on" i yelled at two guys running past me.



"PETER LAW is SPEAKING in five minutes" came the reply.



The shop they stopped to spit at - had been taken over by the Labour Party as an election campaign office



I went to listen, and I was quite amazed.



My grandmother told me of the days in her teenage years when the methodist revival in the valleys saw men run to the town boundary where a methodist minister stood on a box to preach. The tradition established a century or more earlier was required in wesley's time because THEN you needed the permission of the anglican or catholic priest to preach the gospel inside the town boundary.



To this day a lay minister or minister ordained in any other faith has to "sign the book" if allowed to preach in the anglican church.... declaring he does so under the authority of the anglican bishop in charge of the diocese



It was as if those days were back. A throng of people stood in the drizzle and listened and applauded. There were no heckles. There were questions, and answers came back. Some answers got applause, some did not. There were no "boo"'s



Law utterly destroyed the labour majority and went victorious as the independent MP and AM until a brain tumour took him down barely a year later.



In the following by-election, under rules that now required separate candidates for London and Cardiff, his widow stood for the assembly, and won convincingly, and his election agent stood for westminster and won that too.



The woman who stood for the party under the "two tits good, one dick bad" dogma dreamt up by harriet harman lost her deposit. I don't remember her name and neither does anyone else in the valley. They only know the Labour party had to give her a life peerage to shut her up.



Labour regained the seat in 2010 and held it in 2015 when the candidate like all others in wales promised to respect the referendum result.



He has done nothing of the sort and has sought to unravel brexit ever since he got in.



In the seat that sent Nye Bevan to create the NHS, the title of this thread will be settled once and for all



I for one shall sit up all night to await the declaration.



I expect a repeat of the 2000's

[Churchill]

How will not holding the government to account help?



The government is responsible for all aspects of the NHS, not just its funding.

I do know that thank you, I want the Poloticians to stop using the NHS to score political points against each other, that does not mean abdicating their responsibility for the NHS but all parties working together to ensure it is run better and more efficiently take the political differences out of the equation completely

[Ciaphas]

It always has been since its inception, however it has also been used to score political points by the Poloticians for far to long , it needs to be run better and more efficiently that is what they should concentrate on, money alone will not solve its problems

How will not holding the government to account help?



The government is responsible for all aspects of the NHS, not just its funding.

[Churchill]

The state of the NHS is a political issue for which the government is directly responsible.

It always has been since its inception, however it has also been used to score political points by the Poloticians for far to long , it needs to be run better and more efficiently that is what they should concentrate on, money alone will not solve its problems

[Ciaphas]

I would like to see the NHS being used by Poloticians to score political points off each other stopped, the claim that the NHS is being privatised bit by bit and being sold off is not only misleading it is wrong



Of the entire NHS budget which is a substantial amount, less than 10% is spent by the NHS or Non NHS Heath Care which is not the same as Private Health Care, a small amount of the care we receive or have access to is provided by local authorities bought and paid for by the NHS



Part of that small percentage of the NHS budget is spent on purchasing care from private providers.



Private Health Care is just that Private seperate from the NHS which individuals or employers pay for .

The state of the NHS is a political issue for which the government is directly responsible.

[papasmurf]

From what you claim happens in Cornwall I am glad I don't live there

So am I glad you don't live here.   But Cornwall is still preferable, to the "Mukti-Cultural Idyll" that is High Wycombe which is close to where I used to live.

[Churchill]

From what you claim happens in Cornwall I am glad I don't live there

[papasmurf]

Part of that small percentage of the NHS budget is spent on purchasing care from private providers.

Privat providers have caused massive problems here in Cornwall, which is why most of what was privatised has been taken back "in house."

Which is why the news item I just posted is frankly a shock.

[Churchill]

I would like to see the NHS being used by Poloticians to score political points off each other stopped, the claim that the NHS is being privatised bit by bit and being sold off is not only misleading it is wrong



Of the entire NHS budget which is a substantial amount, less than 10% is spent by the NHS or Non NHS Heath Care which is not the same as Private Health Care, a small amount of the care we receive or have access to is provided by local authorities bought and paid for by the NHS



Part of that small percentage of the NHS budget is spent on purchasing care from private providers.



Private Health Care is just that Private seperate from the NHS which individuals or employers pay for .