Voters will have to show ID

[Churchill]

Having looked on line it appears very few successful prosecutions of Electoral Fraud have been made over the years , however  allegations are made and looked into some have simply been dealt with by the Electoral Commission marked up as resolved locally 82 of them what ever that means probably words of advice  



In the run up to the 2014 Tower Hamlets Mayoral election, 164 allegations of electoral fraud were made. Following a petition alleging corrupt practices, the civil court ruled that there had been a variety of corrupt and illegal practices and the election was made void, but no criminal prosecutions followed.



It appears to me that it is very difficult to prove especially if voters approached refuse to assist any investigation, as for Postal Votes if the person whose vote it is simply signs it then gives it to another person to tick the box for the candidate they want to see win and post it how do you prove that, as I recall that is supposed to have happened in the North West of England within the Asian Community if its true or not I don't know.



Only way to remove the suspicion or stop any real incidents of Electoral Fraud IMHO is with an Official Government ID card for every adult British Citizen, preferably free

This could also be evidence that the system is somewhat working - in cases where there is enough fraud to swing the result, the election was (or should be) anulled.  If there is no evidence, this could also be because the allegation is false - just because an allegation is made doesn't mean it's for sure true.

I agree allegations are easy to make its proving they are true that is the hard bit, that is probably why few prosecutions have taken place, however allegations have been made therefore to reduce allegations and strongly deter those who may try to commit electoral fraud another tier of security would help, after all what you permit you promote

[Javert]

Having looked on line it appears very few successful prosecutions of Electoral Fraud have been made over the years , however  allegations are made and looked into some have simply been dealt with by the Electoral Commission marked up as resolved locally 82 of them what ever that means probably words of advice  



In the run up to the 2014 Tower Hamlets Mayoral election, 164 allegations of electoral fraud were made. Following a petition alleging corrupt practices, the civil court ruled that there had been a variety of corrupt and illegal practices and the election was made void, but no criminal prosecutions followed.



It appears to me that it is very difficult to prove especially if voters approached refuse to assist any investigation, as for Postal Votes if the person whose vote it is simply signs it then gives it to another person to tick the box for the candidate they want to see win and post it how do you prove that, as I recall that is supposed to have happened in the North West of England within the Asian Community if its true or not I don't know.



Only way to remove the suspicion or stop any real incidents of Electoral Fraud IMHO is with an Official Government ID card for every adult British Citizen, preferably free

This could also be evidence that the system is somewhat working - in cases where there is enough fraud to swing the result, the election was (or should be) anulled.  If there is no evidence, this could also be because the allegation is false - just because an allegation is made doesn't mean it's for sure true.

[Churchill]

Having looked on line it appears very few successful prosecutions of Electoral Fraud have been made over the years , however  allegations are made and looked into some have simply been dealt with by the Electoral Commission marked up as resolved locally 82 of them what ever that means probably words of advice  



In the run up to the 2014 Tower Hamlets Mayoral election, 164 allegations of electoral fraud were made. Following a petition alleging corrupt practices, the civil court ruled that there had been a variety of corrupt and illegal practices and the election was made void, but no criminal prosecutions followed.



It appears to me that it is very difficult to prove especially if voters approached refuse to assist any investigation, as for Postal Votes if the person whose vote it is simply signs it then gives it to another person to tick the box for the candidate they want to see win and post it how do you prove that, as I recall that is supposed to have happened in the North West of England within the Asian Community if its true or not I don't know.



Only way to remove the suspicion or stop any real incidents of Electoral Fraud IMHO is with an Official Government ID card for every adult British Citizen, preferably free

[johnofgwent]

I do not share Streetwalkers view, but mainly in regard to Euro Elections. Here ballot boxes are unsealed on Thursday counted "face down" in a sham count that reveals the turnout, and then transferred to plastic crates I did not see any locks on for storage in a "safe" place under the council control for the weekend, after which the boxes were brought back within (to me) obvious signs of having been sealed in the interim,when they are counted on the Sunday night.



The opportunity for fraud is bleeding obvious.

[Nick]

Tell that to the Brexit Party, they lost a seat due to a convicted vote rigger.

As far as I am aware the police found no evidence of vote-rigging taking place during the Peterborough by-election.

That's because it is impossible to prove vote rigging using postal votes.

[Ciaphas]

Give that voter fraud is a non-issue it seems likely this is a further means of reducing voter participation from demographics which typically don't vote Conservative.

Tell that to the Brexit Party, they lost a seat due to a convicted vote rigger.

As far as I am aware the police found no evidence of vote-rigging taking place during the Peterborough by-election.

[Nick]

Give that voter fraud is a non-issue it seems likely this is a further means of reducing voter participation from demographics which typically don't vote Conservative.

Tell that to the Brexit Party, they lost a seat due to a convicted vote rigger.

[Ciaphas]

I've often wondered why we didn't need to prove who we were when voting. I think it will reduce turnout though.

I had a quick look around and the answer seems to be that in the absence of a mandatory national ID scheme any such requirement would make voting less accessible.

[Javert]

To me, this would have to go hand in hand with a compulsory ID card scheme for everybody, with the ID cards being provided free of charge to everyone who is not earning above average income.



Otherwise this is just a trick to disenfranchise poorer voters - it's no coincidence that the Conservative party would like to impose this rule, without also making sure that all people eligable to vote can get a photo ID free of charge if they want.



I'm not necessarily against people having to provide some kind of evidence to vote - it always seemed odd to me that you don't even need your own polling card.  However if it's photo ID, then we need to make sure that everyone can easily get a photo ID.

[Churchill]

Just becuase you are no longer Paranoid does not mean they are not after you :roll:



I have no fear of the Old Bill in fact they have been very helpful to me and mine on a few of occasions, its the little people who live at the bottom of my garden they worry me, and that strange woman and her cat at No 72 ::

[Cassie]

I've often wondered why we didn't need to prove who we were when voting. I think it will reduce turnout though.

[Ciaphas]

Give that voter fraud is a non-issue it seems likely this is a further means of reducing voter participation from demographics which typically don't vote Conservative.

[johnofgwent]

Hmmm, OK. I agree in principal as anything to prevent electoral fraud has to be good.

However:

THIS:

Ministers are planning to introduce a legal requirement for voters to produce photographic ID, in order to safeguard against electoral fraud.

I know there are not many people without photo ID, but the fact there are people without driving licences AND passports, suggests the need for an ID card. I have no problem with this, but I know there are plenty of people that do.

It will also help identify and control who is in the country legally.

I did a LOT of research into the EXACT preparations that were being made by the councils chosen to prototype / pilot these extra measures.



In the pilot schemes, some councils did n more than demand you actually brought the registration card that was delivered to your door. Some asked you to being evidence of identity and residence which did not need photographic id. And some did require photo id. BUT In EVERY case where "photo id" was required, the council in question provided voters who did not have any paid for photo id (passports or photo driving licences) with a process to apply for a "Voter ID card" FREE OF CHARGE.



These facts did not however stop the tirade of (predominantly labour led) criticism that this was a mechanism to stop the poor from voting.



incidentally, Labour are being ridiculed on all sides tonight by various persons who have dug out emands that members bring photo id to conference, and in one case to a local constituency party meeting to debate how best to fight these photo id proposals....



And for the record, vote riggng - something i have been a victim if personally, when my postal vote was intercepted, opened, and its return inexpertly forged.... is not reserved for the left. The tories did it in Swansea.



And again for the record, in 2010, my passport had expired, and the banks would not accept it for a pension transfer, and my driving licence, issued to me in 1997 at my present address, and still valid today, bears no photograph.



I blagged my way into the BBC Question time at Newport using my PADI diving instructor ID card which I told them was provided by my "employer"



And when Barclays Bank tried to refuse to transfer my pension rights to my new employer and thus give them a £22,000 refund on the grounds i had no valid photo id to prove who i was, the pensions ombudsman absolutely bloody wiped the floor with their intestines and forced them to reinstate the pension and transfer it with interest...

[patman post]

No one has answered what photo ID people will provide who don't have it. Therefore the idea is already flawed.

There will have to be a free 'poll permit' available from all supermarkets, GP surgeries, Post offices, banks etc. I wonder what that would cost.

Banks provide unique credit and debit cards, and stores issue loyalty cards. If the govt got its act together it could do the same and include the NI number to the other information all without much cost. Adding photos if required needn't cost much — many organisations already issue id to employees — although anything the govt outsources does tend to eat up money, usually through unscrupulous contractors, of which IT are the worst..

[Scott777]

Yes Scott totally agree a  bad idea,the very short road to control and loss of freedom.

 :hattip



Anyone who feels the need for compulsory ID might like to check out Crimebodge.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb6PY3c-FzM">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb6PY3c-FzM



Needless to say, he isn't a fan of the police, but he has good reason and provides copious evidence.  Give the cops immediate access to your details, and you'll soon discover how psychopathic and corrupt many of them are.