United States Presidential election - 2020

[johnofgwent]

Would any other leader trust Trump now?

This seems to me to be a bit of a strange argument.  I doubt world leaders are hugely different in the way they come to a judgement than you or i, and frankly, I doubt any have changed their attitude to him in the last month from what it was a month ago, a year ago or a decade ago. History shows us the nature of any special relationship between us and the USA is that when they say jump we say "on whose head" or get labelled as "part of the problem".
Secondly, does any "leader" trust any other "leader" anyway ?

[Borg Refinery]

Would any other leader trust Trump now? If you were Putin would you trust Trump any more than Trump should trust Putin?

Putin trusts no one except Putin. Trump is the same but worse, a textbook narcissist.

As Trump and his hardliners dig in, those who are no longer singing from the Trump hymn-sheet are either being sacked or resigned. Some of these people are sure to know some 'stuff' that could be very bad for Trump. But will they be too scared to let on?

Hopefully he will be in prison where he belongs fairly shortly, even Deutsche Bank are sick of the colostomy bag filled with kerriorhea

[HDQQ]

I suspect Putin is fed up of Trump and has given him a mild shoeing, or just didn't try as hard this time to get him elected.

Would any other leader trust Trump now? If you were Putin would you trust Trump any more than Trump should trust Putin?

As Trump and his hardliners dig in, those who are no longer singing from the Trump hymn-sheet are either being sacked or resigned. Some of these people are sure to know some 'stuff' that could be very bad for Trump. But will they be too scared to let on?

[Borg Refinery]

Strategies need their tactics to work  — and so far Trump's don't seem to have done.

It hasn't concluded yet so you don't realky know.

I suspect Putin is fed up of Trump and has given him a mild shoeing, or just didn't try as hard this time to get him elected.

Here's the gist of a collated list of spoiling actions that I've lifted** from elsewhere which seems to cover the current situation:

Armed and combat dressed Trump supporters intimidated people with organised deterrence programmes; they moved polling places from areas they thought had high Democrat support; they "purged" electoral rolls; they faked ballot drop boxes in California; they altered ID requirements; they reduced voting hours in some places; in short, they did whatever they could to discourage and prevent postal voting during a pandemic.

That list is miniscule compared to the shit they've done to suppress the cote and disrupt the election, two quick ones from the top of my head - voter suppression in Texas, underfunding the post office, fake emails sent out in mostly Dem areas telling people not to go out and vote.

The usual Russian soshul meeja post amplification of conspiritard theories etc.

The commentary concludes:
And they STILL f***ing lost!
No wonder Trumps's pissed off!

They lost partly because the Chinese and others interfered and Russia shoed off Trump a bit.

China and Iran were caught red handed trying to interfere in the election. I guess that's a big shock to some, like the US hasn't done it so many times to others, gasp.

** happy to give full acknowledgement if the originator gives permission — it's not a banned former poster...

One of your other winder upper mates per chance? 

[patman post]

The long game means taking over the USSC so Roe v Wade can be overturned etc, and Citizen's United v FEC can be reinforced and strengthened to allow untraceable dark money super PACs to roam the wilds of South Dakota undeterred begging for dimes.

To that end, Trump or rather his administration have played a blinder. Then there's this to embed themselves further still;

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-executive-order-civil-service-biden-election-schedule-f-b1255692.html

Russian chess players are the best, tho they get beaten by yank supercomputers on occasion. 

Strategies need their tactics to work  — and so far Trump's don't seem to have done.

Here's the gist of a collated list of spoiling actions that I've lifted** from elsewhere which seems to cover the current situation:

Armed and combat dressed Trump supporters intimidated people with organised deterrence programmes; they moved polling places from areas they thought had high Democrat support; they "purged" electoral rolls; they faked ballot drop boxes in California; they altered ID requirements; they reduced voting hours in some places; in short, they did whatever they could to discourage and prevent postal voting during a pandemic.

The commentary concludes:
And they STILL f***ing lost!
No wonder Trumps's pissed off!

** happy to give full acknowledgement if the originator gives permission — it's not a banned former poster...

[Borg Refinery]

Gina Miller has twice led legal challenges against the government and won.

Trump is yet to win his current threatened litigation.

So only a little bit like...

The long game means taking over the USSC so Roe v Wade can be overturned etc, and Citizen's United v FEC can be reinforced and strengthened to allow untraceable dark money super PACs to roam the wilds of South Dakota undeterred begging for dimes.

To that end, Trump or rather his administration have played a blinder. Then there's this to embed themselves further still;

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-executive-order-civil-service-biden-election-schedule-f-b1255692.html

Russian chess players are the best, tho they get beaten by yank supercomputers on occasion. 

[patman post]

A bit like Gina Miller, then?

Gina Miller has twice led legal challenges against the government and won.

Trump is yet to win his current threatened litigation.

So only a little bit like...

[patman post]

UK and a Biden presidency:
Even though Biden appears to be less confrontational than Trump on the international scene, once he's got Covid and the US economy in hand, is the "special relationship" with the UK likely to be high up his list of things to work on?

Anything the US gets involved with needs to be of benefit to it. Trump regards the EU as a competitor, hence his favouring Brexit.
Indications are that Biden (who seems to be a conciliator at heart) would like the EU as an ally in US dealings with China and Russia, This leads me to wonder how important he will reckon the UK to be (now it's left the EU) in his immediate plans — other than as an impediment to the maintenance of the Good Friday Agreement...

[Borg Refinery]

Maybe you misread me as a Trump supporter! Aaaaaghh! I'm definitely not one! Clearly Biden has won and a jolly good thing too, not least because it gets Trump out of the White House. But the current discussion of cheating is in relation to votes that were cast, that's what all the argument is about. If Trump supporters tried to suppress voting in Texas (which is credible, given what we know about some of them) it would never be possible to ascertain how many people were prevented from voting with enough accuracy to resurrect what their intended vote would have been. If people were deliberately prevented from voting then presumably the perpetrators are guilty of a crime of some sort or other and could be prosecuted.

Nope, it's legal but should be criminal, like with gerrymandering.

But you're missing the point which is that they're both guilty of legal & illegal cheating both now and historically.

That's a fact of the election, so your claim that "no cheating" has happened when it's the Republicans' confessed strategy and the Dems are linked to using Venezuelan linked voting contractors in 33 states? You know there's cheating going on. They may have a recount across half the US or something ridiculous as a result of this.

I think it's a joke that any voting firm can be linked to any political party and be allowed to count public votes.

Our elections have been pretty terrible in 2015, 2017 and of course 2019. Again where to start?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/09/craig-mackinlay-tory-mp-cleared-breaking-2015-general-election-expenses-rules

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-39289195

https://www.channel4.com/news/election-expenses-exposed

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/26/electoral-reform-society-state-funding-opposition-parties

But then democracy in this country is a fucking joke, just ask the Scots.

[HDQQ]

See, that's why we can never let our guard down

In your own words, you're a rejoiner

Fortunately, Corbyn and Black Lives Matter will together ensure the people who would sign us back up never get a majority.

Don't you mean "Fortunately or unfortunately, Corbyn and Black Lives Matter will together ensure the people who would sign us back up might not get a majority if an election were held within the next month or two?"

[HDQQ]

A bit like Gina Miller, then?

Or the pro-Covid Tory rebels opposing lockdown, for that matter.

[HDQQ]

Earth to planet Quack. Earth to planet Quack.

Republicans tried to suppress voting in multi states, most of all Texas.

Their admitted strategy is to cheat..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression

That's just no 1 in a list of thousands of things I could reel off, but you will as usual ignore it all and go "no no no (sticks fingers in ears)".

Maybe you misread me as a Trump supporter! Aaaaaghh! I'm definitely not one! Clearly Biden has won and a jolly good thing too, not least because it gets Trump out of the White House. But the current discussion of cheating is in relation to votes that were cast, that's what all the argument is about. If Trump supporters tried to suppress voting in Texas (which is credible, given what we know about some of them) it would never be possible to ascertain how many people were prevented from voting with enough accuracy to resurrect what their intended vote would have been. If people were deliberately prevented from voting then presumably the perpetrators are guilty of a crime of some sort or other and could be prosecuted.

[johnofgwent]

Nobody's found any evidence of cheating in the election yet, but just suppose there had been cheating with the mail-in ballots, why assume it would just be Democrat voters that cheated and not Republican ones?

Farage is a fine one to talk. It has been said that it was postal votes that secured a majority for leaving the EU and that the majority of people who voted in person did so for remain. We'll never know how true that was but given that pro Brexit opinion was at its highest when there were thousands of refugees crossing into Hungary etc., a few weeks before the referendum, it's quite possible.

If Trump is able to overturn this presidential election result, that's giving carte blanche to any aggrieved losing side in any country to try and reverse an election result or referendum.

As a former remainer (now I'm a rejoiner) I'm used to having people spouting "will of the people" wwhenever I say anything. Now Biden is the "will of the people" in the USA and there are no moral grounds for Trump being allowed a second term. (well, maybe in 2024 if he enters and wins fair and square then - but let's not even go there.)

See, that's why we can never let our guard down

In your own words, you're a rejoiner

Fortunately, Corbyn and Black Lives Matter will together ensure the people who would sign us back up never get a majority.

[Borg Refinery]

Nobody's found any evidence of cheating in the election yet

Earth to planet Quack. Earth to planet Quack.

Republicans tried to suppress voting in multi states, most of all Texas.

Their admitted strategy is to cheat..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression

That's just no 1 in a list of thousands of things I could reel off, but you will as usual ignore it all and go "no no no (sticks fingers in ears)".

[Barry]

If Trump is able to overturn this presidential election result, that's giving carte blanche to any aggrieved losing side in any country to try and reverse an election result or referendum.

A bit like Gina Miller, then?