Well, the good news is that the flu is over

[papasmurf]

I agree, we have to electrocute & kneecap every single one of them as they're all Tory plants.

..incl everyone I saw in Hastings today, as almost no one was wearing a mask, come to think of it I didn't see one mask.

I doubt there were many Tory plants   turning up in thousands at BLM protests, or on crowded beaches, or at illegal raves, of jammed together in queue outside a shop.

[cromwell]

BeelBeeb, i expect a return to normality about September.

that would be great. I would be very happy with that.

What mechanisms are you basing this expectation on?

That CV will just vanish? That we've all secretly had it already?

We've seen that without action the virus doesn't just go away. Brazil is getting worse and worse. US states that have loosened restrictions are seeing a resurgence of cases.

So why do you expect this to be over by September?

During a pandemic people will say we should have acted sooner.
After a pandemic people will say we seriously over-reacted.
We are at the point where public opinion is turning. After 12 weeks of crisis, only now do they want us to wear a mask?

for a start, masks as a measure has been on the table since the beginning. Several Asian countries routinely use them anyway. Slovakia has handled CV well and they went with mask wearing early. The CDC recommended them several weeks ago.The UK is late to the party (again)

I take it you have full confidence in the government advice BeelBeeb - if so, you have changed your position, as you have been critical.

absolutely not.  I'm still critical.

I believe the government are being slow on masks because, having banged on about how they are not necessary they don't want to lose face by saying "we were wrong, masks are important".

I believe this government would happily choose saving face over doing the right thing.

Remember how the told us that testing and track and trace weren't important? Until they were important.

Masks and saving face,was that deliberate?
Anyway China which hasn't to contend with the niceties of a free society is locking down  in areas again,I think though that the UK will not suffer a second wave.......only because as someone pointed out it's unlikely we'll ever get over the first.

[Borg Refinery]

For what it is worth I do feel a bit guilty. I quite like Pappy but he is such an easy target. 

I am VERY angry at people who are not taking Covid-19 seriously. If there have been a proper enforced lock down earlier it would only have needed to have lasted a month.
As it is due to idiots not taking it seriously a spike is inevitable.

I agree, we have to electrocute & kneecap every single one of them as they're all Tory plants.

..incl everyone I saw in Hastings today, as almost no one was wearing a mask, come to think of it I didn't see one mask.

[papasmurf]

For what it is worth I do feel a bit guilty. I quite like Pappy but he is such an easy target. 

I am VERY angry at people who are not taking Covid-19 seriously. If there have been a proper enforced lock down earlier it would only have needed to have lasted a month.
As it is due to idiots not taking it seriously a spike is inevitable.

[cromwell]

Borchester has several aims in life......all usually orbit around the star of irreverence and one of those circling planets is smurfy who is easily wound up,what usually follows is certainty that the poster who has disturbed the planet smurf is labelled a plant from Tory HQ,this I have witnessed for nearly a decade.

For what it is worth I do feel a bit guilty. I quite like Pappy but he is such an easy target. 

Yes and at the new forum normal service has been resumed as soon as possible

[BeElBeeBub]

BeelBeeb, i expect a return to normality about September.

that would be great. I would be very happy with that.

What mechanisms are you basing this expectation on?

That CV will just vanish? That we've all secretly had it already?

We've seen that without action the virus doesn't just go away. Brazil is getting worse and worse. US states that have loosened restrictions are seeing a resurgence of cases.

So why do you expect this to be over by September?

During a pandemic people will say we should have acted sooner.
After a pandemic people will say we seriously over-reacted.
We are at the point where public opinion is turning. After 12 weeks of crisis, only now do they want us to wear a mask?

for a start, masks as a measure has been on the table since the beginning. Several Asian countries routinely use them anyway. Slovakia has handled CV well and they went with mask wearing early. The CDC recommended them several weeks ago.The UK is late to the party (again)

I take it you have full confidence in the government advice BeelBeeb - if so, you have changed your position, as you have been critical.

absolutely not.  I'm still critical.

I believe the government are being slow on masks because, having banged on about how they are not necessary they don't want to lose face by saying "we were wrong, masks are important".

I believe this government would happily choose saving face over doing the right thing.

Remember how the told us that testing and track and trace weren't important? Until they were important.

[Borchester]

Borchester has several aims in life......all usually orbit around the star of irreverence and one of those circling planets is smurfy who is easily wound up,what usually follows is certainty that the poster who has disturbed the planet smurf is labelled a plant from Tory HQ,this I have witnessed for nearly a decade.

For what it is worth I do feel a bit guilty. I quite like Pappy but he is such an easy target. 

[cromwell]

Borchester has several aims in life......all usually orbit around the star of irreverence and one of those circling planets is smurfy who is easily wound up,what usually follows is certainty that the poster who has disturbed the planet smurf is labelled a plant from Tory HQ,this I have witnessed for nearly a decade.

[Barry]

BeelBeeb, i expect a return to normality about September.

During a pandemic people will say we should have acted sooner.
After a pandemic people will say we seriously over-reacted.
We are at the point where public opinion is turning. After 12 weeks of crisis, only now do they want us to wear a mask?

I take it you have full confidence in the government advice BeelBeeb - if so, you have changed your position, as you have been critical.

[papasmurf]

Let me turn it around: what is the maximum level of intrusion you would accept in exchange for returning to "before"?

Returning to before is not happening anytime soon. Not until there is a vaccine.

[BeElBeeBub]

No it does not. It only works if the infected wear masks and that is currently about 1 in a hundred people. On a bus, there's a  4/1 chance against anyone of the 25 passengers even being infected.
This is a hammer to crack a nut, and might have been more effective in April, but not now, when the virus is on its way out.

It's entirely true it only works if the infectious are wearing the mask, but The whole probmem is *we don't know who is infectious*

If we knew that then we could stop the pandemic in its tracks

The virus is on the wane because we are isolating the infectious individuals. Because we can't actually identify who is infectious, we are achieving this by isolating everyone.

Test, track & isolate would reduce this by quickly isolating anyone who becomes infectious to reduce the number of people they infect. But we haven't (and probably won't for a while) got a decent TTI system

General mask use cuts the chances of transmission, which can allow a return to some semblance of "before".

What cut in R would you want from mark wearing before you decided to support it? Or are there no circumstances in which you would?

Let me turn it around: what is the maximum level of intrusion you would accept in exchange for returning to "before"?

[Borchester]

Sadiq Khan is mayor of London and a sad bugger at best. In moments of stress the first thing he does is to blame the previous mayor who was Boris Johnson. Then he blames the government which is currently run by Boris Johnson. Then he starts on Donald Trump. And then the tea lady...

Finally when there is no one else to blame and the matter at hand has more or less sorted itself out, Saddo takes action. His latest wheeze is that all bus passengers must wear masks.

not sure why you are dragging the mayor of london into this.

The mask regulations for public transport are England wide regulations.  TFL are enforcing the law of the (Eng)land (which I am sure you are very keen on being upheld).

So I put mine on, got on the bus, sat down and took it off. Whereupon the bus grass squealed that I was suppose to be wearing it. Whence I replied eat shit fuckwit (I can be quite droll when the need arises), bollocks to the Chinese flu, I can't sodding well breath. And an old girl a couple of seats agreed with me.

So there you are. Forget the Peking Pox. The real killer is going to be asphyxiation from these bloody silly masks the numbnuts in the NHS are so keen on.

Do you not understand the reasons for wearing a mask?

It's *not* to protect you.  It's to protect other people *from* you.

Wearing a mask is a right bloody faff.  It's uncomfortable, hot, makes conversations and interaction difficult etc.

Why should I wear an uncomfortable mask to protect you, when you can't be bothered to return the courtesy?

And almost all persons in the know say that masks are next to useless.

Which makes most people wonder why for many years all around the world, wearing masks to prevent infection has been considered a total medical necessity, In particular by surgeons , but also the basic treatment  of any open wound or chance infection situation. Its  effect would fall down if it was  only optional for reasons explained by others here.

Probably the same reason they used leaches to reduce fevers and mercury to cure the pox. They were the fashion at the time.

Masks are ok if provide you never adjust them to scratch your nose, breath or take them off to laugh at the plague cart outside Pappy's door, but the only real way to escape this bug is to live in a completely sterile environment. Which isn't possible, although an operating theatre comes close. Which is not such a bad idea as medical folk tend to be quite jolly.

I don't see the point of that plastic visor Pappy is so keen on unless you spray it black and use it for a bit of arc welding. Otherwise all that will happen is that the lurky will slide underneath and do whatever it is supposed to do.

Overall, I reckon the best idea is to go outside as much as possible and let Old Sol clear the air. A while back Plod was patrolling the London parks telling folk not to sunbath when they should have made it compulsory. But there you are. In my experience the London police tend to have good hearts and no bloody sense 

[Barry]

But it only works if the majority wear masks.

No it does not. It only works if the infected wear masks and that is currently about 1 in a hundred people. On a bus, there's a  4/1 chance against anyone of the 25 passengers even being infected.
This is a hammer to crack a nut, and might have been more effective in April, but not now, when the virus is on its way out.

[BeElBeeBub]

And almost all persons in the know say that masks are next to useless.

Apart from the CDC, WHO, France, Germany, S.Korea, Singapore, Japan etc etc

This is the same mistake that keeps being made

Masks, unless they are well fitted FRP3 respirators are not very good at stopping virus particles being breathed in.

So from an individual perspective wearing a mask will not provide much protection (unless ffp3)

However, repeated studies show that masks, even crude home made cloth ones, are effective at reducing the amount if virus particles breathed out

This is because the particles breathed out are initially big and wet (relatively) and are easily caught.  Once they hang around in the air for a few sections the water begins to evaporate and the particles get smaller.

Incidentally, this is why some masks with "exhaust" values are not very good from a public health pov

So if everyone (or most people) wears masks it means the person on the bus who is pre-symptomatic is emitting less particles than if they were unmasked and all the other people on the bus are less likely to catch CV.

"My mask protects you, your mask protects me"

But it only works if the majority wear masks.

Let me ask this. Imagine it was conclusively proven that wearing masks reduced the spread to such a degree that we could resume 99% of pre pandemic living (pubs, restaurants, cinemas, taxis, work, picnics, etc) as long as we wore masks.  Would you still resist mask wearing?

[Good old]

Sadiq Khan is mayor of London and a sad bugger at best. In moments of stress the first thing he does is to blame the previous mayor who was Boris Johnson. Then he blames the government which is currently run by Boris Johnson. Then he starts on Donald Trump. And then the tea lady...

Finally when there is no one else to blame and the matter at hand has more or less sorted itself out, Saddo takes action. His latest wheeze is that all bus passengers must wear masks.

not sure why you are dragging the mayor of london into this.

The mask regulations for public transport are England wide regulations.  TFL are enforcing the law of the (Eng)land (which I am sure you are very keen on being upheld).

So I put mine on, got on the bus, sat down and took it off. Whereupon the bus grass squealed that I was suppose to be wearing it. Whence I replied eat shit fuckwit (I can be quite droll when the need arises), bollocks to the Chinese flu, I can't sodding well breath. And an old girl a couple of seats agreed with me.

So there you are. Forget the Peking Pox. The real killer is going to be asphyxiation from these bloody silly masks the numbnuts in the NHS are so keen on.

Do you not understand the reasons for wearing a mask?

It's *not* to protect you.  It's to protect other people *from* you.

Wearing a mask is a right bloody faff.  It's uncomfortable, hot, makes conversations and interaction difficult etc.

Why should I wear an uncomfortable mask to protect you, when you can't be bothered to return the courtesy?

And almost all persons in the know say that masks are next to useless.

Which makes most people wonder why for many years all around the world, wearing masks to prevent infection has been considered a total medical necessity, In particular by surgeons , but also the basic treatment  of any open wound or chance infection situation. Its  effect would fall down if it was  only optional for reasons explained by others here.