Margaret Thatcher split off topic

[Thomas]

Because  if you prefer to highlight  Starmers attempts  at creating the way for a non Brexit as the only example of duplicity you can think of , then you  didn't see that frigging bus did you.
Even the divine Boris, has always wanted something less than a pure Brexit, most politicians in either main party would have and did to a degree screw the true brexiteers. Starmer did not want Brexit, everyone including you knew that . How does an attempted compromise , make him a shit lawyer or politician?  But then anything is possible to believe  for a non Tory, non Scot Nat, non Labour. Non brexiteer, non unionist, and you are no Lib Dem.

I did see the feckin bus. We debated it on our old forum for years.

The point regarding the bus is that johnson and the tories are well known for their duplicity. I keep telling you folk didnt vote brexit for some duplicitous utopia offered by the tories or johnson or anyone else. Everyone accepts the tories are liars and duplicitous.

You how ever are trying to insinuate labour are whiter than white , and im simply pointing out starmers duplicity too. He had a crap message over brexit , ran a crap campaign to keep england in the eu , because he didnt understand like you the reasons the english wanted to leave , spent four years fighting it , and got a kicking time and again.

You need to listen more to your fellow countrymen rather than sneering at them over and over for voting brexit.

[Thomas]

So what are you on about . I haven't said Labour, are in the strictest sense socialists. They have more socialist aims than the Tories, Without trying to exist without the basic Tory  ethics. So what does that make them, and most of their vote potential, if it's not ,Pink or Red Tories?
Inventing socialism has nothing to do with it. Being more inclined to incorporate socialist principles has , and that is all Labour ,will do.
Charlatans the lot of them I might accept, as long as you include every politician known to man.  None of them have the key to the the perfect road to your happiness or mine, but putting up with being stabbed because you see it coming is f—king pitiful.

You said people who thought they were socialist voted for brexit no?

You then went on to bring socialism into the debate further , and i simply pointed out not only was that crap about people who thought they were socialist voting for brexit , but the labour party arent socialist either.

So we agree then no?

So if labour arent socialist , and merely want to offer small c conservatism , as they have done since the days of blair , tell me what actually is the point of them?

If you want the public on your side , you have to stand out from the crowd , not offer more of the same.

None of them have the key to the the perfect road to your happiness or mine,

I have never said they did.

The key to my happiness and my family and friends is nothing to do with politicians. You , and your heros in labour however keep trying to fool the gullible by offering all these idealistic dreams of socialism and equality and all the other shite we have been hearing for decades.

People are laughing at you , and dont take you serious.

......and when simple things come along like brexit , or scottish independence , you fall flat on your face as its out of your comfort zone of selling fantasy to the gullible.

I personally vote SNP because i want scotland to be an indy country. Thats it ,not some socialist utopia , or land of the gods , but simply an indy country. You dont get that. Neither does labour.

The english too voted brexit because they wanted england to be an independent country. Not some independent utopia , just engerlund  free. You dont get that. Neither does labour.

Save selling the perfect world to gullible children. For the rest of us a bit more long in the tooth , we know neither labour tory snp or any other party will provide it.

...but for the things that do interest us , we will carry on voting the party in our best interests as always.


...and labour wont be it.

[Good old]

Or is he a man that does what he believes to be the right thing to do. Not a man that licks the arse of popularity thinking it could win him an election.
If not staying true to his beliefs , would have made him a political genius , then god forbid we ask our politicians for honesty.

Staying true to his beliefs?

The man who tried to sell brino and a CU , just not the CU as though the public were daft was staying true to his remainer beliefs?

LMFAO auld man , thats hardly called wearing your heart on your sleeve now is it trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes and failing dismally.

My god, Thomas, scraping  the barrel ,ah. A  f—king great red bus covered in lies. And that's all that caught your eye.

I voted remain , what are you talking about red buses for?

...and i point out again starmer is taht true to his so called beliefs he had to lie to the electorate at the last election over brexit by pretending to offer them brexit ( in name only) or the customes union membership scam( just not "the " CU) and people laughed at his ill thought out attempt at duplicity.

For a lawyer , he isnt very good at that sort of thing is he?

Because  if you prefer to highlight  Starmers attempts  at creating the way for a non Brexit as the only example of duplicity you can think of , then you  didn't see that frigging bus did you.
Even the divine Boris, has always wanted something less than a pure Brexit, most politicians in either main party would have and did to a degree screw the true brexiteers. Starmer did not want Brexit, everyone including you knew that . How does an attempted compromise , make him a shit lawyer or politician?  But then anything is possible to believe  for a non Tory, non Scot Nat, non Labour. Non brexiteer, non unionist, and you are no Lib Dem.

[Good old]

I'm not surprised ,because they are not socialists. That's my point they like what socialism brought to them ,whether they know it or not, at the same time neither are they Tory.

Neither are labour socialists , which is my point.

Labour havent been anywhere near socialism for 50 years. No one by any stretch of the imagination could call blair , milliband or starmer , middle class london bubble knight of the realm starmer as a socialist so what are you on about?

Socialism wasnt something labour invented .The idea of community owned social organistation and production/distribution has been around since year dot among mankind. Yet despite not themsleves being socialists , labour and some of their supporters never shut the feck up about it.

Charlatans the lot of you. Maybe thats why the tories are more liked in your country than labour.........the tories are honest thieves who stab you from the front while labour  , the dishonest thieves who wrap an arm around you , whisper about socialism to the gullible and stab you in the back.

So what are you on about . I haven't said Labour, are in the strictest sense socialists. They have more socialist aims than the Tories, Without trying to exist without the basic Tory  ethics. So what does that make them, and most of their vote potential, if it's not ,Pink or Red Tories?
Inventing socialism has nothing to do with it. Being more inclined to incorporate socialist principles has , and that is all Labour ,will do.
Charlatans the lot of them I might accept, as long as you include every politician known to man.  None of them have the key to the the perfect road to your happiness or mine, but putting up with being stabbed because you see it coming is f—king pitiful.

[Thomas]

Or is he a man that does what he believes to be the right thing to do. Not a man that licks the arse of popularity thinking it could win him an election.
If not staying true to his beliefs , would have made him a political genius , then god forbid we ask our politicians for honesty.

Staying true to his beliefs?

The man who tried to sell brino and a CU , just not the CU as though the public were daft was staying true to his remainer beliefs?

LMFAO auld man , thats hardly called wearing your heart on your sleeve now is it trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes and failing dismally.

My god, Thomas, scraping  the barrel ,ah. A  f—king great red bus covered in lies. And that's all that caught your eye.

I voted remain , what are you talking about red buses for?

...and i point out again starmer is taht true to his so called beliefs he had to lie to the electorate at the last election over brexit by pretending to offer them brexit ( in name only) or the customes union membership scam( just not "the " CU) and people laughed at his ill thought out attempt at duplicity.

For a lawyer , he isnt very good at that sort of thing is he?

[Thomas]

I'm not surprised ,because they are not socialists. That's my point they like what socialism brought to them ,whether they know it or not, at the same time neither are they Tory.

Neither are labour socialists , which is my point.

Labour havent been anywhere near socialism for 50 years. No one by any stretch of the imagination could call blair , milliband or starmer , middle class london bubble knight of the realm starmer as a socialist so what are you on about?

Socialism wasnt something labour invented .The idea of community owned social organistation and production/distribution has been around since year dot among mankind. Yet despite not themsleves being socialists , labour and some of their supporters never shut the feck up about it.

Charlatans the lot of you. Maybe thats why the tories are more liked in your country than labour.........the tories are honest thieves who stab you from the front while labour  , the dishonest thieves who wrap an arm around you , whisper about socialism to the gullible and stab you in the back.

[Good old]

Or is he a man that does what he believes to be the right thing to do. Not a man that licks the arse of popularity thinking it could win him an election.
If not staying true to his beliefs , would have made him a political genius , then god forbid we ask our politicians for honesty.

Staying true to his beliefs?

The man who tried to sell brino and a CU , just not the CU as though the public were daft was staying true to his remainer beliefs?

LMFAO auld man , thats hardly called wearing your heart on your sleeve now is it trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes and failing dismally.

My god, Thomas, scraping  the barrel ,ah. A  f—king great red bus covered in lies. And that's all that caught your eye.

[Good old]

Brexit did play a big part in the last election.  Brexit ,was voted for by many people that thought they were socialists, on most issues. I say they are nothing more than Pink, Red , Tories,. ready to swing to the next carrot.

Lmfao.

Who thinks of themsleves as socialists in this day and age?

I dont know what age you are auld man , but i tell you you must be middle aged onwards to be coming out with this sort of stuff.

...and this is exactly what i am talking about.

wolfie smith types and voting labour cause ma faither voted labour is yesterdays politics.

No one gave a feck about socialism or quasi socialism when voting for brexit , or against. I chapped doors , i spoke to people on and off the interwebby , and it just didnt factor so what are you on about?

I'm not surprised ,because they are not socialists. That's my point they like what socialism brought to them ,whether they know it or not, at the same time neither are they Tory. For that reason it doesn't matter what label is put on them.
Brexit will not hold them together for ever.  It's got little to do with age to believe the Tory grip on power can not be seriously challenged. Or shouldn't be.Unless you would have it ,that believing in the power of democracy is for old men.
Voting Tory because your father did , is commonplace. But I do agree  voting anything because your father did should be banned.
I'm proud to be an old English,man,Thomas, that didn't for most of his life live in a country that didn't  have the will for changing the nature of Tory ,control through the ballot box.  Something that you  think  is  no longer possible or needed, or should be in  future .

[Thomas]

Or is he a man that does what he believes to be the right thing to do. Not a man that licks the arse of popularity thinking it could win him an election.
If not staying true to his beliefs , would have made him a political genius , then god forbid we ask our politicians for honesty.

Staying true to his beliefs?

The man who tried to sell brino and a CU , just not the CU as though the public were daft was staying true to his remainer beliefs?

LMFAO auld man , thats hardly called wearing your heart on your sleeve now is it trying to pull the wool over the electorates eyes and failing dismally.

[Thomas]

Admittedly the labour party has moved on. I always had a vision of Worzel and the rest of the party faithful walking the streets and painting Open The Second Front Now! on every convenient wall 

Its never a leader elected with vision and uniqueness at labour though is it borkie?

For the past ten years or more , its merely imitations of either 1970 dinosaurs and wolfie smith types , in poor imitation of great men like jimmy reid , or tony blair clones rather than progressive forward thinkers.

A party totally bereft of vision .

Still a good thing about starmer is his lack of a spine.

Reminds me of that old quote in one of tam devines history books , "a sigh ran down the labour front bench looking for a spine to run up!"

You only have to write something bad about labour and starmer is falling over himself wanting to bung you money out of court .

[Good old]

A lot of them thought Brexit should have been fully supported by the left. It was of course the big vote winner.

Certainly 61 % of labour constituencies pre GE 2019 supported brexit , yet dumb as feck starmer told corbyn he had to stick his fingers up to them and say no( or the laughable BRINO and a CU membership , just not THE CU lmfao).

political genius that man so he is.

Or is he a man that does what he believes to be the right thing to do. Not a man that licks the arse of popularity thinking it could win him an election.
If not staying true to his beliefs , would have made him a political genius , then god forbid we ask our politicians for honesty.

[Thomas]

Brexit did play a big part in the last election.  Brexit ,was voted for by many people that thought they were socialists, on most issues. I say they are nothing more than Pink, Red , Tories,. ready to swing to the next carrot.

Lmfao.

Who thinks of themsleves as socialists in this day and age?

I dont know what age you are auld man , but i tell you you must be middle aged onwards to be coming out with this sort of stuff.

...and this is exactly what i am talking about.

wolfie smith types and voting labour cause ma faither voted labour is yesterdays politics.

No one gave a feck about socialism or quasi socialism when voting for brexit , or against. I chapped doors , i spoke to people on and off the interwebby , and it just didnt factor so what are you on about?

Brexit , means nothing if its not a success, and thats going to be the big question that lot will swing for next, because it's success has always been in doubt

I can accept that in part , not that it meant anything during the referendum or last election . For brexit to be a success , it has to happen first , and so far after nearly four years , we are merely in a half way house transition.

Bearing in mind , labour and their cronies among englands remain team spent most of the last four years , with starmer pulling the strings , doing eveything they could to stop people even getting a glimpse of brexit having a chance by refusing to honour the ref result.

poor auld labour always on the wrong side of public opinion with their "we know best " politics. Maybe that why you are always carping from the sidelines.?

The only thing that wearied the Tories , by 98 was ,after Thatchers, early  successes, reeling from one balls up after another. The country was feed up to the teeth being out of work, and having their properties dragged out from under them.

...and then you had thirteen years in power to rectify things , and couldnt and didnt , and the nations of the uk got fed up with you that much you have been out of power now ten years and counting , have lost your northern english and scottish fiefdoms , and have been on the opposite side of the public mood in practically every which way now for a decade and more .

I would say labour caused as much if not more damage than thatcher , but again its another topic for discussion.

Starmer ,is not my hero, but you writing him off is laughable

im not im saying his record to date ( losing side in labours 2015 election , losing side in brexit ref , losing side in 2017 , and losing side as well as being the erchitect of labours tactics in 2019)is laughable , and "smart politician he certainly is not.

Another over promise underdeliver labour leader.

as is your apparent lopsided passion for a foreign countries politics.

As long as your parliament controls my country , i have a right to have a comment.   Believe me , the day we get indy , im gone off english forums and lost all interest in your parliament , which will then be of no more of a passing interest with a smal niche under foreign affairs.

Up till then we have to put up wae each other sadly.

[Borchester]

Well on the bright side, all those politicos who were saying you should question your sanity because you don't have a majority, should have been questioning their own sanity, but I bet they don't.

We are all grappling with todays problems while labour are still fighting the problems of the seventies and nineties.

Admittedly the labour party has moved on. I always had a vision of Worzel and the rest of the party faithful walking the streets and painting Open The Second Front Now! on every convenient wall 

[Good old]

What has Boris sold the people who never vote Tory ,Quasi- Socialism? Looking at his pre-Covid spending plans it would appear so.  Thatcher just stuck at selling everything she could to any taker , including  a cut price house to the Labour vote.  The never vote Tory, is very often a Tory at heart, all it takes is the carrot.

Bollocks.

Johnson did something simple ...........that was realise the people in your country wanted brexit , so offered it to them , and they voted for him in their droves.

Feck all to do with quasi socialism.

Labour meanwhile said brexit is bad , you can't have it and pissed off the electorate in your country that much they recieved the biggest kicking in history , all under starmers anti brexit  directive.

Blair was a tosspot who happened to be in the right place at the right time in political history , took advantage of a weary tory government that had been in power for 17 years with his middle way , sold his red tory kid on socialism to his naive traditional labour voters while appealing to the small c tory middle england marginals.

Once his core vote had him sussed , he went on to lose millions of them , then eventually pissed off the small c tory voters in middle england after flooding their country with mass immigration , and the game was finally up and he knew it when broon took over.

I love tory blair. Biggest tosspot in history , but essential , along with thatcher , for the massive rise in scottish nationalism.

Many of the issues that plague the uk today from a status quoers point of view can be laid firmly at the mans door. They say blair was thatchers child , and in my opinion so too is farage blairs child. New labour were solely responsible for the rise in ukip/brexit party.

I hope your hero starmer is every bit a blairite as he seems to be......

The same old , blood and thunder dismissive of every thing other than the thoughts of  chairman Thomas .
Brexit did play a big part in the last election.  Brexit ,was voted for by many people that thought they were socialists, on most issues. I say they are nothing more than Pink, Red , Tories,. ready to swing to the next carrot. As such they are any bodies. Quasi-Tory. Quasi- Lab
Brexit , means nothing if its not a success, and thats going to be the big question that lot will swing for next, because it's success has always been in doubt.
The only thing that wearied the Tories , by 98 was ,after Thatchers, early  successes, reeling from one balls up after another. The country was feed up to the teeth being out of work, and having their properties dragged out from under them.
Starmer ,is not my hero, but you writing him off is laughable , as is your apparent lopsided passion for a foreign countries politics.

[Thomas]

A lot of them thought Brexit should have been fully supported by the left. It was of course the big vote winner.

Certainly 61 % of labour constituencies pre GE 2019 supported brexit , yet dumb as feck starmer told corbyn he had to stick his fingers up to them and say no( or the laughable BRINO and a CU membership , just not THE CU lmfao).

political genius that man so he is.