Are the BBC for real.

[Scott777]

The religion of Brexit : apply logic and factual scrutiny to all other aspects of your life, but when it comes to Brexit thou shalt not think critically, thou shalt believe in Britain.

In reference to me, empty words that have no substance.  And as Borchester kindly points out, in lieu of my absent memory, the editor is a Remainer, so the evidence shows the delusion is all yours.

[Borchester]

Daily Mail is fast becoming a Remainer paper, I think that's the one that was taken over by a Remainer not long ago.  The Sun isn't news, it's junk, so hardly has value for Brexiters.

The Daily Mail is edited by Geordie Greig, who is a stauch remainer. The Times advocated remain in 2016 and is currently looking to buy the Daily Telegraph. The London Evening Standard is edited by George Osborne who adores the EU and is almost terminally pissed off because even he has finally realised that his chances of getting back onto the government front benches are pathetically small.

[Conchúr]

Daily Mail is fast becoming a Remainer paper, I think that's the one that was taken over by a Remainer not long ago.  The Sun isn't news, it's junk, so hardly has value for Brexiters.

You're entitled to your opinion Scott, but I can only express mine too: if you are trying to claim that the Daily Mail is a Remainer paper, then I have to tell you that you are engaging in an act of spectacular self-delusion.

[Conchúr]

'Chancellor Sajid Javid has refused to recalculate Treasury assessments on the impact of the government's Brexit deal, saying it is "self-evidently in our economic interest.'



In other words it's easier to lie if you're not having to contradict your own governments updated impact assesment which will likely find the impact of Mr Johnson's deal will be worse than Mrs May.



I find it remarkable that UK politics has regressed to the point where the Chancellor can make such statement.



The Conservatives have given up all pretences of being the party of fiscal responsibility.

The religion of Brexit : apply logic and factual scrutiny to all other aspects of your life, but when it comes to Brexit thou shalt not think critically, thou shalt believe in Britain.

[Ciaphas]

'Chancellor Sajid Javid has refused to recalculate Treasury assessments on the impact of the government's Brexit deal, saying it is "self-evidently in our economic interest.'



In other words it's easier to lie if you're not having to contradict your own governments updated impact assesment which will likely find the impact of Mr Johnson's deal will be worse than Mrs May.



I find it remarkable that UK politics has regressed to the point where the Chancellor can make such statement.



The Conservatives have given up all pretences of being the party of fiscal responsibility.

[Scott777]

Who calls it a Utopia?  From what I've seen, Remainers see the EU as something which has been more successful than unsuccessful.  I've always found the Remainer view to be much more nuanced, while Leaver mentality tends to veer into total vilification of the EU.



As for the that irritating phrase "MSM". . .  the Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph and the Express have huge readerships in the UK so calling them anything other than mainstream is like calling the Pope a Hindu. Those papers hardly give the EU an easy ride do they ?

Daily Mail is fast becoming a Remainer paper, I think that's the one that was taken over by a Remainer not long ago.  The Sun isn't news, it's junk, so hardly has value for Brexiters.

[Conchúr]

If anything, the fervency and pseudo-religious insistence of Remainers that the EU is a utopia where everyone is treated well and we all live happily ever after is treated with praise by the MSM.

Who calls it a Utopia?  From what I've seen, Remainers see the EU as something which has been more successful than unsuccessful.  I've always found the Remainer view to be much more nuanced, while Leaver mentality tends to veer into total vilification of the EU.



As for the that irritating phrase "MSM". . .  the Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph and the Express have huge readerships in the UK so calling them anything other than mainstream is like calling the Pope a Hindu. Those papers hardly give the EU an easy ride do they ?

[Scott777]

If anything, the fervency and pseudo-religious insistence of Brexiteers to believe in Brexit at all costs have actually led to them getting a far easier ride in the media than they really should.

If anything, the fervency and pseudo-religious insistence of Remainers that the EU is a utopia where everyone is treated well and we all live happily ever after is treated with praise by the MSM.

[Javert]

How the F@@@ can they model anything when they don't know what deals and how much the deals are going to be for. It's called guesswork not modelling.

You can make assumptions about what the most likely outcome of trade negotiations might be, what the impact on the current trade would be and how much if any additional trade would result.  e.g. you could assume that a trade deal with the US would result in zero tariffs on UK exports to the US of certain products, and that this would increase those exports by a certain amount.



You can make these assumptions based on being an expert in international trade, trade negotiations, and what are each countries' main strengths and weaknesses.



Alternative, you can just go around saying that we will make many billions more out of trade deals with non EU countries for sure because their combined GDP is bigger and therefore of course it's obvious that we will do much better trade deals - even my mate down the pub could figure that out.



I prefer the first approach of asking people who actually know a lot about it.

[Nick]

Did you read the post?  He stated that many of these models do assume that certain trade deals will be done.

How the F@@@ can they model anything when they don't know what deals and how much the deals are going to be for. It's called guesswork not modelling.

[Javert]

And all the anti-Brexit modelling is based on getting zero deals, and as we know the Government has over 10 deals ready to go.



As for the fact that trade with the EU and other countries not compensating, can I have your proof of that? I know the answer to that, and the answer is know, there isn't any.

Did you read the post?  He stated that many of these models do assume that certain trade deals will be done.

[Nick]

I'd agree that the BBC lacks bottle, or at least has done as regards Brexit. Ironically though to the point you're making, if they did actually have bottle on the matter of Brexit they would be eviscerating the baseless blustering of Brexiteers in the same way I would expect to have any baseless bluster on my part eviscerated in a business meeting, job interview or conference.

The only baseless facts are the financial ones coming from Remainers. Brexiteers have stated time and again that we are happy to take a hit on the economy and that nothing is certain. But Remainers know to the penny how much the UK will loose. Amazing!

[Nick]

This is great example of how brexiters get numbers out of proportion.



You make a play of the £108bn "we won't be sending to the EU", but that's the annual loss Vs remain. Comparing it with the cumulative "saving" over 10 years of EU contributions is comparing apples to oranges.



Over 10 years, the cumulative GDP of the UK will be somewhere around £200,000 billion and the cumulative short fall (what you should be comparing the £100bn figure with) around £350bn.



A lot of the modeling assumes trade deals with the US, Japan, Australia, India, NZ, China etc.



The fact is that trade deals with far off countries do not have as great a beneficial as trade deals with closer countries.



The trading environment with our biggest and closest partner will get worse.  There is no way around that fact.  Trading will be harder than now.  There will be more friction in both directions and there is no chance of it being better.



The trade environment with other countries may get a little easier but it simply won't be able to compensate.

And all the anti-Brexit modelling is based on getting zero deals, and as we know the Government has over 10 deals ready to go.



As for the fact that trade with the EU and other countries not compensating, can I have your proof of that? I know the answer to that, and the answer is know, there isn't any.

[Conchúr]

No.



The BBC's job is to survive and for that it needs the licence fee. Without that it would not last ten minutes against the commercial giants. So it tries not to offend left or right and cowers in the middle. And still gets brickbats from all sides.



The BBC's problem is not that it is Conservative or Labour or sympathetic to the Flat Earth Society. Its real problem is that it lacks bottle.

I'd agree that the BBC lacks bottle, or at least has done as regards Brexit. Ironically though to the point you're making, if they did actually have bottle on the matter of Brexit they would be eviscerating the baseless blustering of Brexiteers in the same way I would expect to have any baseless bluster on my part eviscerated in a business meeting, job interview or conference.

[Borchester]

You do realise that the job of BBC news and its journalists it to report the news and what is happening.

No.



The BBC's job is to survive and for that it needs the licence fee. Without that it would not last ten minutes against the commercial giants. So it tries not to offend left or right and cowers in the middle. And still gets brickbats from all sides.



The BBC's problem is not that it is Conservative or Labour or sympathetic to the Flat Earth Society. Its real problem is that it lacks bottle.