Why Labour lost.

[srb7677]

Some Brexit-loving, Blairite and Tory-loving, aberration of an SNP dude in Scotland?

The peace loving moderate progressive left has spoken!!!

Anyone who is a millimetre to the right of arthur scargill in your world is a right wing tory srb !

That frankly is risible bollocks. Arthur Scargill - whilst actually right about the threat to miners' jobs - was in many ways a fool. John Smith was not a Tory. Neil Kinnock was not a Tory. Even Gordon Brown was not a Tory. I will even go so far as to say neither Vince Cable nor Caroline Lucas nor Nicola Sturgeon are Tories, and they aint even in my party. Lol

You seem to operate on the principle that if you talk shit often enough and long-windedly enough, it becomes more true. But you are kidding yourself. It remains bollocks.

[srb7677]

According to an article in this week's New Statesman, Scottish Labour is currently engaged in sidelining the progressive left in a Blairite takeover, with a Blairite as shadow Scottish secretary. Apparently this is supposed to be the road to electoral nirvanna in Scotland, as if progressively minded Scots didn't massively reject this before. Thomas might love the Blairites but I doubt many of his countrymen and women will. Labour is utterly doomed in Scotland on this trajectory, and the Blairites themselves are too arrogantly stupid to see it.

Ah the blairite bogeyman raises its head yet again in srbs post.

Steve , do you think you could actually make one post on this forum without screaming some spittle flecked rant about blairites?

What happened to the progressive left in scotland under corbyns momentum henchman , the "moderate hard left" former gmb official ricky leopard?

You told me the hard left hadnt taken over labour in scotland , Now you tell me the blairites are clearing out the progressive hard left?

Im confused steve? Are you telling me the counter revolutionaries are clearing out the revolutionaries?

The hard left - of your own obsessive imagination - and the progressive left - of reality - are two very different things. The Blairites always were too strong in Scotland because the mass influx of progressive new members failed to happen there. Nevertheless, during the Corbyn era the progressive left made some gains internally, though this was way too late to win over progressive Scots in a hurry, and nowhere near convincing enough with so many Blairites at large. But it has gone into reverse now. You should be pleased. Because it means Labour is doomed in Scotland.

[Thomas]

According to an article in this week's New Statesman, Scottish Labour is currently engaged in sidelining the progressive left in a Blairite takeover, with a Blairite as shadow Scottish secretary. Apparently this is supposed to be the road to electoral nirvanna in Scotland, as if progressively minded Scots didn't massively reject this before. Thomas might love the Blairites but I doubt many of his countrymen and women will. Labour is utterly doomed in Scotland on this trajectory, and the Blairites themselves are too arrogantly stupid to see it.

Ah the blairite bogeyman raises its head yet again in srbs post.

Steve , do you think you could actually make one post on this forum without screaming some spittle flecked rant about blairites?

What happened to the progressive left in scotland under corbyns momentum henchman , the "moderate hard left" former gmb official ricky leopard?

You told me the hard left hadnt taken over labour in scotland , Now you tell me the blairites are clearing out the progressive hard left?

Im confused steve? Are you telling me the counter revolutionaries are clearing out the revolutionaries?

[Thomas]

Some Brexit-loving, Blairite and Tory-loving, aberration of an SNP dude in Scotland?

The peace loving moderate progressive left has spoken!!!

Anyone who is a millimetre to the right of arthur scargill in your world is a right wing tory srb !

[Thomas]

Sure, but it is significant.

wurzels 32% in the decemeber 2019 general election was significant also , but its still a minority.

Why are you acting as if norn iron would be the centrepiece of any manifesto?

Im not. Im telling you labours support for the republicans was a millstone around your neck with the english people.

...but you carry on.

I guess you are already inventing my beliefs for me Thomas. Thanks for being a mind reader, it must be a useful skill.

Can you tell me next week's lottery numbers while you're at it please?

Explain yourself then ? What do you mean convince them?

With boots and fists?

How apt

Especially for labour  and the brit left eh?

It would be preferable if you based your words on what people actually write,

I am , but to be fair you are being very vague in your attempt to defend labours republican stance.

That's where you are wrong.

Sturgeon explicitly said that if Corbyn had a preferable indyref position - she'd have worked with him.

course she did , as did salmond with milliband in 2015. Wonderfull bit of politicing that both the snp and tories took advantage of. It was and remains a win win for the snp either way.

Not too sharp at this politics malarkey dyno are you on the brit left?

This applies to any future party apart from Labour in England.

Dont understand your point. Who else could the snp "work with" in england in the FPTP stitch up , and secondly hopefully we wont be in the uk much longer to worry about it.

The same goes for electoral alliances in NI.

..Thus clearly proving the truth of my point Thomas.

The brit left working with the snp and sinn fein..........feckin hell boris would think xmas had come early.

No.

What's idealistic fantasy is saying that Boris will somehow run the country so well after his disastrous stint as foreign secretary. I've mentioned this in real life so real Tory supporters.

Not one of them could deny how true that is - they were forced to agree - not because I was rude or browbeating, but because I was absolutely polite and honest.

So proving that an idealistic fantasy already was voted for!

My 'idealistic fantasy' and childish naivete and whatever other charming praise you want to heap on me, is much less 'out there' than what's already won an election!

Sorry dyno , but this seems a bit of a rant and you have completely lost me.

Your idealistic fantasies have been put to the sword time and again over the last ten years. How many general elections , referendums euro elections etc etc have you lost time and again? From memory since 2015 alone i counted 5?

so when borkie said this...

A policy so heroically stupid that I can't see how the brothers and sisters can possibly resist it

He was spot on.

It's naive to think the Tories will ever grant you an indyref, but people voted for that did they not?

Who thinks the tories are going to grant us an indyref?

Tell me what countries of the 62 in the empire asked for permission to have an independence referendum to leave?

You call me naive?

Sometimes 'idealistic fantasy' and 'childlike' wonder is exactly what stirs people up, Thomas

Sort of workers of the world unite stuff you mean?

[srb7677]

According to an article in this week's New Statesman, Scottish Labour is currently engaged in sidelining the progressive left in a Blairite takeover, with a Blairite as shadow Scottish secretary. Apparently this is supposed to be the road to electoral nirvanna in Scotland, as if progressively minded Scots didn't massively reject this before. Thomas might love the Blairites but I doubt many of his countrymen and women will. Labour is utterly doomed in Scotland on this trajectory, and the Blairites themselves are too arrogantly stupid to see it.

[srb7677]

He seems to be more in tune with the white english working class than you do.

How the F@@@ would you know? Some Brexit-loving, Blairite and Tory-loving, aberration of an SNP dude in Scotland?

[Borg Refinery]

EDIT - btw the North East (remember that many of these seats have never been conservative) demonstrated that feeling clearly and unmistakably at the last election by voting out Labour in a way never before seen

We will see, but it may be about Brexit, there is a possibility (although it is slim, which I accept) that they might suddenly reverse back after this is done with.

[Borg Refinery]

I agree srb, Depitty. Those are tough questions for sure Depitty, I like to think that coming out with the clearest and most just platform you can is the best idea.

Maybe people should care about NI. It seems to me that 46% of the population already obviously does. I think people care.

That leaves a significant amount of people who do care according to your own numbers.

Ahhh!. That famous word from the british left......."significant". Significant isnt a majority though is it dyno...?

Sure, but it is significant.

If the british left want to chase the 41% of the vote who dont want to dump norn ireland to get brexit , and the tories get to play with the other 59 % , i wonder what will happen election time?

Why are you acting as if norn iron would be the centrepiece of any manifesto?

Convince them?

What like BLM protests , you are going to shove irish history down peoples throats wether they are interested or not?

The totalitarian brit left strike again!

I guess you are already inventing my beliefs for me Thomas. Thanks for being a mind reader, it must be a useful skill.

Can you tell me next week's lottery numbers while you're at it please?

We have an old saying in scotland , about taking a horse to water but not being able to make it drink.

How apt.

You are making the presumption the other 94% want to learn , which you dont in any way know for sure.......and then making the further presumption if they did all learn , they would come out on northern irelands side.( and then vote labour )

Where did I state that?

Once again you invent my beliefs for me, let me know the results on the horses before it happens next ok.

I stated that we need new parties and I place no faith in Labour. It would be preferable if you based your words on what people actually write, it is an unfortunate habit of yours this adding things.

- I expect them to bring this issue up and fight for the rights of everyone, including NI Catholics, and to support independence for Scotland.

...but i dont want you to dyno. Dont you see , what we want is for you , and your fellow countrymen , left right centrist or whoever , to keep your beaks out of our affairs.

If you spent more time concentrating on your own country , you might be in a better place.

That's where you are wrong.

Sturgeon explicitly said that if Corbyn had a preferable indyref position - she'd have worked with him.

This applies to any future party apart from Labour in England.

The same goes for electoral alliances in NI.

..Thus clearly proving the truth of my point Thomas.

Borkie is right though isnt he?

No.

What's idealistic fantasy is saying that Boris will somehow run the country so well after his disastrous stint as foreign secretary. I've mentioned this in real life so real Tory supporters.

Not one of them could deny how true that is - they were forced to agree - not because I was rude or browbeating, but because I was absolutely polite and honest.

So proving that an idealistic fantasy already was voted for!

My 'idealistic fantasy' and childish naivete and whatever other charming praise you want to heap on me, is much less 'out there' than what's already won an election!

It's naive to think the Tories will ever grant you an indyref, but people voted for that did they not?

It's naive to think Blair would be responsible with the nation's finances when not one of his cabinet had any experience running a business (IIRC) or any background in banking, economics etc, but people voted for him.

Sometimes 'idealistic fantasy' and 'childlike' wonder is exactly what stirs people up, Thomas. No one ever voted on a party that said "we will do things exactly as before without shaking anything up".

[DeppityDawg]

Starmers labour down 6 points to 17% of the scottish vote.....

Two things stand out from that Graph, Rob Roy - 1) that any party with 50% + approval has to be doing a reasonably good job in the eyes of the electorate and 2) who would have thought even 20 years ago that the conservatives would beat Labour into THIRD place?

Unbelievable Jeff!!

[Sheepy]

LOL sure Smurf like we tell them all before every election they try. 
Same old political cobblers different day

i will have you know sheep smurf is not and never has been a member of the labour party.

All true of course. He has never made a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour party, or cast any political aspersions relating too the conservatives.

[Thomas]

Starmers labour down 6 points to 17% of the scottish vote.....

[Thomas]

Much as it makes me feel dirty to reference the Daily Mail:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8677977/Conservatives-Labour-LEVEL-new-opinion-poll.html

Conservatives and Labour are now LEVEL in new opinion poll with just half of voters backing the Government's handling of coronavirus
Labour and the Tories are now level in a shock new survey by pollster Opinium
It marks the first time the Conservatives have not been ahead of Sir Keir Starmer's Labour Party in an Opinium survey for 13 months
New poll comes as MPs prepare to return to Westminster on Tuesday, with furious Conservatives accusing the Government of being rudderless
By JACK WRIGHT FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 02:06, 30 August 202

Opinion poll average this year still has the conservatives on course for a 30 seat majority . The starmer bounce , more like the starmer flop , still cant get labour in the lead which is pretty dammning when you consider all the problems the tories have had to face , and starmer has just sat at the sidelines saying nothing and looking limp as feck.

Labour should be well ahead with all the bad press the tories have face and they arent.


Meanwhile starmer still struggling badly in scotland.

The ComRes poll has Holyrood voting intention numbers as well...

Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions:

SNP 51%
Conservatives 24%
Labour 17%
Liberal Democrats 6%

Scottish Parliament regional list voting intentions:

SNP 43%
Conservatives 21%
Labour 16%
Greens 10%
Liberal Democrats 8%

[Thomas]

LOL sure Smurf like we tell them all before every election they try. 
Same old political cobblers different day

i will have you know sheep smurf is not and never has been a member of the labour party.

[Sheepy]

LOL sure Smurf like we tell them all before every election they try. 
Same old political cobblers different day