Why Labour lost.

[DeppityDawg]

Isn't this all semantic bollocks about claiming to be English, Scottish or Welsh?

Proof yet again (as if any were needed) that you only come here to try and get a reaction. Drive by posting at its finest (as openly admitted by your good self)

[Borg Refinery]

Some Brexit-loving, Blairite and Tory-loving, aberration of an SNP dude in Scotland?

The peace loving moderate progressive left has spoken!!!

Anyone who is a millimetre to the right of arthur scargill in your world is a right wing tory srb !

That frankly is risible bollocks. Arthur Scargill - whilst actually right about the threat to miners' jobs - was in many ways a fool.

Wasn't there speculation that he was actually a provocateur, who then turned on the miners and helped divide the strikes then collected a big fat pension afterwards?

[Borg Refinery]

Isn't this all semantic bollocks about claiming to be English, Scottish or Welsh? There's no English, Scottish or Welsh passports. Only long-term Northern Ireland residents can legally claim a passport other than British for the island they're on even though their British ancestors go back generations with no offshore  intermingling.

I'm a born Londoner. I've often been told I can't be English. Suited me — I've got a British passport, which used to be enough. Now I need another to make it easier to work in the EU, hopefully promoting British interests. It's a pity I didn't know about the Irish wangle a couple of years ago before it became harder to swing from outside...

I am English, not a British Unionist.

In the past, it never really occurred to me one way or the other but in the last few years it's become apparent that Unionism is a harmful ideology.

Just look at what Bojo did labelling himself "Minister of the Union" just like a Nazi.

So it does matter. And I have a plastic laminate photo icon of Agios Giorgios and the dragon somewhere too...and my avatar on the other forum where me and papa used to argue, is of St George slaying the demons.

[patman post]

Isn't this all semantic bollocks about claiming to be English, Scottish or Welsh? There's no English, Scottish or Welsh passports. Only long-term Northern Ireland residents can legally claim a passport other than British for the island they're on even though their British ancestors go back generations with no offshore  intermingling.

I'm a born Londoner. I've often been told I can't be English. Suited me — I've got a British passport, which used to be enough. Now I need another to make it easier to work in the EU, hopefully promoting British interests. It's a pity I didn't know about the Irish wangle a couple of years ago before it became harder to swing from outside...

[DeppityDawg]

The Brexit vote was won on a tissue of false promises. There was therefore a good argument for asking the people to confirm or reject the final outcome once the facts became known. But Leavers were transparently scared that some might have changed their minds. They were thus the ones running scared from democracy.

So in other words, you are "democratic to the core" only when it suits you

[Borg Refinery]

I think you're right..he's just hopelessly confused and lashing out in any which direction.

My political views have remained consistent for years dyno , while yours are all over the place ,and you dont know the difference between england and britian.

In chilled , got the popcorn out and im sitting back watching you on the brit left go into meltdown becuase hard brexit is only 17 weeks away.

I'm afraid this is ridiculous.

The post of mine you never responded to completely showed you up as hopelessly confused. As jaydee says over on pofo uk .. "you are waffling 100% incoherent utter unadulterated pish".

[Borg Refinery]

Every English person is Unionist to the core?

Do you see what you did here dyno?

Every single left leaning English person is Unionist to the core, but that's not true with right wing ones.

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

and here?

I never said english.

Heres what i originally said in my earlier post....

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core.

Now do you understand the difference between being english and british , or england and britian?

Clearly you dont , as you conflate the two above.

I said i hate the british left , ( politically speaking of course) as they are unionist to the core. The british want to keep control of my country , and they see me as trying to break up theirs.

So we are political enemies. Are you grasping that dyno? Do you even know what you are talking about???

But I'm not a Unionist.

Are you getting that yet? I don't tend to identify myself as British, only English.

You hate Labour because of what they've done in Scotland

aye that partly correct however...

conflate them with every person with what you term as 'leftist' views in Britain. That's still prejudiced...and idiotic, but expected.

No i dont.

I dislike labour for the previous reasons given , and the fact they are of course a british party.

I dont conflate this with every person with leftistr views in britian or elsewhere.

You need to learn to read and comprehend dyno . I said i hate the brit left. What part do you not get?

If you nationally identify as british as you do , and are on the left  , then politically we are enemies. Its not difficult dyno.

Where did I identify as British? I've only ever identified as English.

They aren't an IRA supporting party are they? I was right.

Many in labour past and present are. ...and the english public know it. Hence why wurzel got the boot in december among many other reasons for being a provo lover.

That does''t make them pro IRA as a whole.. they are Unionist.

You are asserting I'm 100% a Unionist which makes you a complete liar and fabricator.

ok , but  i thought you once told me you are british?

So what are you british or english both or what?

English, and I said we want our own parliament, parties and seperate politics.

You have seen me say it before..

What do you think "dont want a left wing utopia" implies?

It doesnt imply the snp are a centre right party does it dyno?

I have already pointed out the snp and the wider yes movement are a broad church , with varying differeing political views. I have also said many a time in an indy scotland i wont necessarily vote snp. I might vote for a centrist party , i might vote left , or right wing.

My vote will go to the highest bidder.

However  , at the moment , i will vote snp to get scottish indy , wether they are left right or centrist. It doesnt bother me. The important bit isnt policy , but the constitutional aim.

Are you getting this dyno?

Let me repeat .......i am not voting snp for some left wing utopia. I am not left wing.

Repeat after my dyno till it sinks in.

Oh right, so no party loyalty then.

Or are you capable of understanding your own posts..

clearly you arent.

Correct! Because you are waffling.

Where did I defend Labour?

LOL. Read the thread.

I defended Corbyn, not Labour.

Who were Blairites.

so?

The point is two blairite leaders of labour and one hard left winger wouldnt work with the snp.

...and i dont want the snp to work with the brit left cause i despise them.

So it worked out rather well in the long term didnt it?

Let's see how things pan out yet......

No, but you are thick as custard.

We are winning in scotland , the tories are winning in england , and the thick as custard brit left  are getting shat on left right and centre.

On top of that , the thick as shit labour support the provos , remain in the eu  ,and every other lost cause in politics.

Who said I was insulting the SNP? It was aimed squarely at you.

It will be gr8 for scotland!

Well we did tell them in 2014 not to vote no , but unfortunately many now see the truth , but at least democracy will have been served .

Good one.

As above.

I know you dont like democracy when it goes against you dyno , but such is life. Another day dont to hard brexit mate. Dont cry , it will soon be over.

And for you over there..

I said both scenarios are possible; ie under the Tories or (willingly) with a future party (not Labour).

Who cares?

Whatever party scottish indy damages , and i think it will damage you more than the tories , we wont care as we will be long gone.

If you don't care why're you making such a big fuss?

I would've liked Corbyn's indyref stance to have been fair, but it wasn't, sadly.

Im glad it wasnt , as i dont want the snp going anywhere near the brit left.

Well good for you, others in the SNP thought better of it.

[srb7677]

You dont want scottish indy cause it ends your british identity , you dont want brexit as it ends your eu citizenship and identity.

What Scotland does is a matter for Scotland. But Scottish independence would not prevent me - as a resident of the island of Britain - from being British, anymore than it would prevent me from being European.

But I tell you this much. If all SNP types are angry, ranting, confused and dishonest types like you, prone to attacking straw men, then perhaps it is easier for me to understand the local Labour antipathy towards you up there. You are not the SNP's best advertisement in terms of reasonableness. Working with you would be impossible.

[srb7677]

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core.

You are talking shit right there. I am British and left. And I am not unionist to the core. I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected. As far as Scottish independence is concerned I don't really regard it as very much of my business, and would be happy enough to honour whatever they decide.

If I had to give a personal view I think the Scots are a good source of progressive left votes - whether that be for the SNP or not but definitely anti-Tory. I would be sorry to see Scotland leave (though losing you would sweeten the pill slightly, ). But it's a decision for the Scots. I'd prefer it if non Scots not resident in Scotland stayed out of any Scottish referendum campaign.

I know mate, he really is spouting the weirdest crapola I've seen in some time.

I think you're right..he's just hopelessly confused and lashing out in any which direction.

He is indeed hopelessly confused in his rants. On the one hand he rejects the very notion of Britishness, with anyone who thinks of themselves as British supposedly being a hopeless unionist. Yet he defends and supports the Brexit vote as a British vote, even though his own nation rejected it. Lmfao.

He also claims to hate the left, even though the SNP is mostly a left leaning party.

[srb7677]

I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected.

For the record, does that include the Brexit vote?

The Brexit vote was won on a tissue of false promises. There was therefore a good argument for asking the people to confirm or reject the final outcome once the facts became known. But Leavers were transparently scared that some might have changed their minds. They were thus the ones running scared from democracy.

[Thomas]

they only respect demcoracy when they win, but  i doubt you will get the honest answer.

Do you respect the independence referendum result of 2014 then? Or do you only respect democracy when you win? Lmfao.

I did .

I watched the winners claim their prize , and the result was implemented .

You however , and your party , didnt respect the result in 2016 , and havent taken your medicine and tried to thwart democracy since then.

Thats the difference , hence why i get to campaign for scot indy again , but you dont for remain( in the eu) till brexit is implemented.

Your a bad loser SRB.

[Thomas]

If you werent unionist , you wouldnt call yourself feckin british would you? You would see yourself then as english ?

What a pitiful and laughable line of attack. I am both British and English, European too. Lmfao

Who is saying you arent?

Or cant be what you want to self id as in terms of nationality?

You are british , im not ,so politically for self evident reasons we are enemies , and always will be .

You can wriggle about in the dirt and dress it up any way you like , but that is the fact of the matter.

You dont want scottish indy cause it ends your british identity , you dont want brexit as it ends your eu citizenship and identity.

Why cant you just be honest about it?

We wont like each other anymore , but at least a measure of respect will creep into debate instead of the days upon days of puerile nonsense you have been spouting , which is why i dont respect you.

[srb7677]

they only respect demcoracy when they win, but  i doubt you will get the honest answer.

Do you respect the independence referendum result of 2014 then? Or do you only respect democracy when you win? Lmfao.

[srb7677]

If you werent unionist , you wouldnt call yourself feckin british would you? You would see yourself then as english ?

What a pitiful and laughable line of attack. I am both British and English, European too. Lmfao

[Thomas]

Not only that I didn't want dawgs question disappearing without an honest answer, which we could be waiting a while.

You could be sheep. Dyno from memory didnt accept the brexit referendum result , like many others we know on these forums , and SRB clearly told us the other week he wanted a second referendum .

The honest answer from both is that they only respect demcoracy when they win, but  i doubt you will get the honest answer.