A Thought

[T00ts]

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

I agree that computers can be conscious, the question then becomes did we create the consciousness or was it already there. Neither possibility is overly satisfactory, but I'd lean on it already being there.

Here's a question. If a computer had actual consciousness and was self-aware, would it also have a conscience or would it be some kind of electronic sociopath? Would it have a soul?

I see no reason why it could not be both a sociopath, or act with compassion depending on the software it was running, just like humans.
I think the term soul is vague, unnecessary, and unlikely to exist inside humans much less robots.

Soul - the combination of body and spirit. One cannot survive without the other hence resurrection and Eternal life.

That supposition presupposes a belief in Christianity which many, including myself, do not share. I believe we have an immortal soul that has evolved over billions of years along with life itself, and which is successively reincarnated. I do not believe in the resurrection nor in eternal life for our bodies in any physical sense.

Nalaar it seems believes in neither your beliefs nor mine. But I guess it is a case of each to our own in terms of beliefs.

Nalaar and I are long term combatants on this point but it all will come down to choice in the end. I believe 

[Nalaar]

I think the term soul is vague, unnecessary, and unlikely to exist inside humans much less robots.

Soul - the combination of body and spirit. One cannot survive without the other hence resurrection and Eternal life.

That supposition presupposes a belief in Christianity which many, including myself, do not share. I believe we have an immortal soul that has evolved over billions of years along with life itself, and which is successively reincarnated. I do not believe in the resurrection nor in eternal life for our bodies in any physical sense.

That's exactly what I mean by the term being vague, you both use the word "soul" but it means completely different things 

[papasmurf]

I bet papa came out the womb with a rifle and a bayonet, ready to start killing Tories!

Yet more personal insults, you just can't stop can you.

[srb7677]

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

I agree that computers can be conscious, the question then becomes did we create the consciousness or was it already there. Neither possibility is overly satisfactory, but I'd lean on it already being there.

Here's a question. If a computer had actual consciousness and was self-aware, would it also have a conscience or would it be some kind of electronic sociopath? Would it have a soul?

I see no reason why it could not be both a sociopath, or act with compassion depending on the software it was running, just like humans.
I think the term soul is vague, unnecessary, and unlikely to exist inside humans much less robots.

Soul - the combination of body and spirit. One cannot survive without the other hence resurrection and Eternal life.

That supposition presupposes a belief in Christianity which many, including myself, do not share. I believe we have an immortal soul that has evolved over billions of years along with life itself, and which is successively reincarnated. I do not believe in the resurrection nor in eternal life for our bodies in any physical sense.

Nalaar it seems believes in neither your beliefs nor mine. But I guess it is a case of each to our own in terms of beliefs.

[T00ts]

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

I agree that computers can be conscious, the question then becomes did we create the consciousness or was it already there. Neither possibility is overly satisfactory, but I'd lean on it already being there.

Here's a question. If a computer had actual consciousness and was self-aware, would it also have a conscience or would it be some kind of electronic sociopath? Would it have a soul?

I see no reason why it could not be both a sociopath, or act with compassion depending on the software it was running, just like humans.
I think the term soul is vague, unnecessary, and unlikely to exist inside humans much less robots.

Soul - the combination of body and spirit. One cannot survive without the other hence resurrection and Eternal life.

[Nalaar]

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

I agree that computers can be conscious, the question then becomes did we create the consciousness or was it already there. Neither possibility is overly satisfactory, but I'd lean on it already being there.

Here's a question. If a computer had actual consciousness and was self-aware, would it also have a conscience or would it be some kind of electronic sociopath? Would it have a soul?

I see no reason why it could not be both a sociopath, or act with compassion depending on the software it was running, just like humans.
I think the term soul is vague, unnecessary, and unlikely to exist inside humans much less robots.

[srb7677]

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

I agree that computers can be conscious, the question then becomes did we create the consciousness or was it already there. Neither possibility is overly satisfactory, but I'd lean on it already being there.

Here's a question. If a computer had actual consciousness and was self-aware, would it also have a conscience or would it be some kind of electronic sociopath? Would it have a soul?

[Nalaar]

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

I agree that computers can be conscious, the question then becomes did we create the consciousness or was it already there. Neither possibility is overly satisfactory, but I'd lean on it already being there.

[Borg Refinery]

I guess my question should more have emphasized the 'maybe' about a theoretical senseless person. I'm just saying we don't actually know what he's perceiving do we.

True, you can even go beyond that to confirm that we can not be sure if another person is conscious. The classic example is that of 'is it like something to be a bat' vs 'is it like something to be a rock' as far as our understand it is like something to be a bat (they have perception, experience etc) but not so with rocks. The same can be said for other humans. We know it is like something to be ourselves, but can only speculate that it is like something to be someone else.

Chambers brought this problem to attention with the famous p-zombie thought experiment.

The difference is that we're talking about another human, not a rock, but other than that you've hit the nail on the head yourself.

So who's to say he is really 'senseless' just because he doesn't perceive things as others do? That's all I'm.saying - but good article anyway.

Correct, and by extension - who's to say if a computer is senseless. We can program a robot to separate red and green apples, does the robot "see" red and green? Does the robot "sense" colour? Or is it another p-zombie, and at what point do the p-zombies reactions to red, green, pain, and joy become so seamless as to be indistinguishable from the (assumed to be conscious) human sat beside them, subject the same red, green, pain, and joy.

Depends on how you program the computer, if it was an AI with awareness then yes. If it wasn't then no nalaar.

[Nalaar]

I guess my question should more have emphasized the 'maybe' about a theoretical senseless person. I'm just saying we don't actually know what he's perceiving do we.

True, you can even go beyond that to confirm that we can not be sure if another person is conscious. The classic example is that of 'is it like something to be a bat' vs 'is it like something to be a rock' as far as our understand it is like something to be a bat (they have perception, experience etc) but not so with rocks. The same can be said for other humans. We know it is like something to be ourselves, but can only speculate that it is like something to be someone else.

Chambers brought this problem to attention with the famous p-zombie thought experiment.

So who's to say he is really 'senseless' just because he doesn't perceive things as others do? That's all I'm.saying - but good article anyway.

Correct, and by extension - who's to say if a computer is senseless. We can program a robot to separate red and green apples, does the robot "see" red and green? Does the robot "sense" colour? Or is it another p-zombie, and at what point do the p-zombies reactions to red, green, pain, and joy become so seamless as to be indistinguishable from the (assumed to be conscious) human sat beside them, subject the same red, green, pain, and joy.

[Borg Refinery]

What is red other than your perception of it?

Dan Dennent is probably the most articulate and well known of the qualia skeptics. I disagree with him, and I think that communication with a sense-less human could prove difficult For Dennetts position.

https://www.naturalism.org/philosophy/consciousness/dennett-and-the-reality-of-red

Thanks, very interesting article.

I guess my question should more have emphasized the 'maybe' about a theoretical senseless person. I'm just saying we don't actually know what he's perceiving do we.

So who's to say he is really 'senseless' just because he doesn't perceive things as others do? That's all I'm.saying - but good article anyway.

[Nalaar]

What is red other than your perception of it?

Dan Dennent is probably the most articulate and well known of the qualia skeptics. I disagree with him, and I think that communication with a sense-less human could prove difficult For Dennetts position.

https://www.naturalism.org/philosophy/consciousness/dennett-and-the-reality-of-red

[Borg Refinery]

How do people with no way to smell, talk, hear, or see have thoughts?

What do they think? Do they think?

A further one;

How do people with all that + no (or barely any) sense of touch (feeling in most of their body) interpret or interact with the world?

what do you call a man with no body and no nose???

Nobody nose.

How do people with no way to smell, talk, hear, or see have thoughts?

What do they think? Do they think?

A further one;

How do people with all that + no (or barely any) sense of touch (feeling in most of their body) interpret or interact with the world?

If there is a sixth sense maybe it comes to the fore when all other senses are missing.

Perhaps if new babies could talk as soon as they were born they would answer so many questions.

Oh, I don't think they would.

I guess wrt one of the questions; most obviously you'd use the modern machines to send them thoughts directly and pickup what they're thinking.

That would seem to be the answer, a technological advancement could open the door to discussion with currently unconnectable consciousness.

A fundamental question that arises from this is whether the person would be able to experience qualia  that they are unable to sense, for example could the "redness" of red be communicated to someone who has never seen, and can't see red.

What is red other than your perception of it?

Maybe this senseless fella's perception (vs our perception of his lack of perception) is actually more perceptive than ours!

[Nalaar]

I guess wrt one of the questions; most obviously you'd use the modern machines to send them thoughts directly and pickup what they're thinking.

That would seem to be the answer, a technological advancement could open the door to discussion with currently unconnectable consciousness.

A fundamental question that arises from this is whether the person would be able to experience qualia  that they are unable to sense, for example could the "redness" of red be communicated to someone who has never seen, and can't see red.

[Borg Refinery]

Perhaps if new babies could talk as soon as they were born they would answer so many questions.

"you call yourselves 'adults'? children are more grown up than you twots! I hope I don't turn out like em'!"

Or more Danny Dyer maybe..

"you mugging m

It's a thought!

I bet papa came out the womb with a rifle and a bayonet, ready to start killing Tories!