Was Jesus a socialist hippy?

[T00ts]

But taking him at face value. He grew angry at the money lenders and stated that it was extremely difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Supposedly it was easier to shove a camel through the eye of a needle.

Actually they were money changers and Jesus was attacking a state monopoly.

Sounds like he was a Thatcherite to me.

Temples are sacred, they are a house of God for some. Jesus was angry that His Father's house had been turned into a market place and they had broken God's laws on Temples.

[Borchester]

But taking him at face value. He grew angry at the money lenders and stated that it was extremely difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Supposedly it was easier to shove a camel through the eye of a needle.

Actually they were money changers and Jesus was attacking a state monopoly.

Sounds like he was a Thatcherite to me.

[johnofgwent]

Was Jesus some kind of ancient socialist hippy? I suppose this question presupposes that he actually existed. Some might think not.

I tend to think he existed but was just an exceptionally enlightened dude and not the son of god or any of that bollocks.

But taking him at face value. He grew angry at the money lenders and stated that it was extremely difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Supposedly it was easier to shove a camel through the eye of a needle.

Sounds like a socialist to me, .

He was also surely one of those damned non-judgemental, live and let live types, who allowed his feet to be annointed by prostitutes, hung out with lepers, and prevented a stoning of an adulteress by making those about to indulge reflect on their own misdeeds. The right would surely attack him as some kind of liberal do-gooder were he alive today, .

And preaching peace and telling people to love their neighbours sounds like an ancient version of some hippy preaching "peace, man!"

Jesus, the peace-loving hippy socialist. What do you reckon? Lmfao.

https://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2010/12/jesus-god-tax-christ-health

One Darling of the left with a VERY christian sounding name https://www.newstatesman.com/writers/mehdi_hasan states Jesus was the Unemployed Son of Two Asylum Seekers. He uses the flight to Egypt to justify his second point regarding their seeking asylum from the wrath of Herod, but I bet most reading the article missed the islamic swipe at the divinity of christ, or didn't give a shit, since hard left usually means marxist which naturally means atheist given what Marx actually SAID ...

I am not "hard left", just democratic left and am no Marxist ideologue. But I personally don't actually believe in the supposed divinity of Christ either. I don't think any supposed divinity should be beyond dispute anyway. And Mehdi Hasan's point is essentially a good one.

And incidentally your side swipe at his religion is off base. As someone who regularly reads the New Statesman, including articles from Mehdi Hasan, I can tell you that though he is a Muslim he is totally not any kind of Islamic extremist. The fact that he is not a Christian shouldn't matter in 21st century Britain. I myself am not a Christian either. So what?

You need to read what I said again.

I didn't call you hard left. 

And I called him a darling of the left.

I didn't call him an islamist either.  I DID say the islamic faith denies the divinity of christ, because every one who professes it has signed up to that. it's a bit pivotal.

[johnofgwent]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't one of the commandments order death for anyone dishonouring their parents? A tad extreme no? And what about those unfortunates with appallingly abusive parents? Such parents deserve every dishonour under the sun, surely?

Well if you are going there

https://humanistsofutah.org/newsletter-archive/archive-2001-2010/2002-2/#Why_Can%E2%80%99t_I_Own_a_Canadian

And yes, I know there is controversty over whether the west wing writers nicked this for Season 1 episode 1 or these guys nicked it from the TV.

It's still the literal old testament truth.

[srb7677]

Was Jesus some kind of ancient socialist hippy? I suppose this question presupposes that he actually existed. Some might think not.

I tend to think he existed but was just an exceptionally enlightened dude and not the son of god or any of that bollocks.

But taking him at face value. He grew angry at the money lenders and stated that it was extremely difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Supposedly it was easier to shove a camel through the eye of a needle.

Sounds like a socialist to me, .

He was also surely one of those damned non-judgemental, live and let live types, who allowed his feet to be annointed by prostitutes, hung out with lepers, and prevented a stoning of an adulteress by making those about to indulge reflect on their own misdeeds. The right would surely attack him as some kind of liberal do-gooder were he alive today, .

And preaching peace and telling people to love their neighbours sounds like an ancient version of some hippy preaching "peace, man!"

Jesus, the peace-loving hippy socialist. What do you reckon? Lmfao.

https://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2010/12/jesus-god-tax-christ-health

One Darling of the left with a VERY christian sounding name https://www.newstatesman.com/writers/mehdi_hasan states Jesus was the Unemployed Son of Two Asylum Seekers. He uses the flight to Egypt to justify his second point regarding their seeking asylum from the wrath of Herod, but I bet most reading the article missed the islamic swipe at the divinity of christ, or didn't give a shit, since hard left usually means marxist which naturally means atheist given what Marx actually SAID ...

I am not "hard left", just democratic left and am no Marxist ideologue. But I personally don't actually believe in the supposed divinity of Christ either. I don't think any supposed divinity should be beyond dispute anyway. And Mehdi Hasan's point is essentially a good one.

And incidentally your side swipe at his religion is off base. As someone who regularly reads the New Statesman, including articles from Mehdi Hasan, I can tell you that though he is a Muslim he is totally not any kind of Islamic extremist. The fact that he is not a Christian shouldn't matter in 21st century Britain. I myself am not a Christian either. So what?

[johnofgwent]

Was Jesus some kind of ancient socialist hippy? I suppose this question presupposes that he actually existed. Some might think not.

I tend to think he existed but was just an exceptionally enlightened dude and not the son of god or any of that bollocks.

But taking him at face value. He grew angry at the money lenders and stated that it was extremely difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Supposedly it was easier to shove a camel through the eye of a needle.

Sounds like a socialist to me, .

He was also surely one of those damned non-judgemental, live and let live types, who allowed his feet to be annointed by prostitutes, hung out with lepers, and prevented a stoning of an adulteress by making those about to indulge reflect on their own misdeeds. The right would surely attack him as some kind of liberal do-gooder were he alive today, .

And preaching peace and telling people to love their neighbours sounds like an ancient version of some hippy preaching "peace, man!"

Jesus, the peace-loving hippy socialist. What do you reckon? Lmfao.

https://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2010/12/jesus-god-tax-christ-health

One Darling of the left with a VERY christian sounding name https://www.newstatesman.com/writers/mehdi_hasan states Jesus was the Unemployed Son of Two Asylum Seekers. He uses the flight to Egypt to justify his second point regarding their seeking asylum from the wrath of Herod, but I bet most reading the article missed the islamic swipe at the divinity of christ, or didn't give a shit, since hard left usually means marxist which naturally means atheist given what Marx actually SAID ...

[T00ts]

Great reply, Toots.

We don't live in such a society anyway, ours is cold and ruthless and mostly anti-Christian.

In my experience, when you're exclusively around people who want to do good and only good (accepting there there are always anomalies) it makes a 100% marked difference to me, I know that much for a fact.

True, maybe I should be stronger and not let myself be effected by it, true maybe the fault lays solely with me, but I can't help that that's who I am. Does that make any kind of sense.. monks after all can't live in the world, ascetics could not be apart of the world and had to get away from it and either only be around Christians (mostly) OR by themselves..

I really don't feel I am cut out for any kind of life in this type of anti-Christian society, and that's me being 100% open and honest, and you and anyone else can think what you like of me, and judge me harshly for saying that.

I don't judge. Thank goodness that's not my job. We can only all do our best and it doesn't help to beat ourselves up for failing. We can regret our mistakes and learn from them and just start each day afresh as best we can. We are not expected to do more than we can manage.

[Borg Refinery]

Great reply, Toots.

We don't live in such a society anyway, ours is cold and ruthless and mostly anti-Christian.

In my experience, when you're exclusively around people who want to do good and only good (accepting there there are always anomalies) it makes a 100% marked difference to me, I know that much for a fact.

True, maybe I should be stronger and not let myself be effected by it, true maybe the fault lays solely with me, but I can't help that that's who I am. Does that make any kind of sense.. monks after all can't live in the world, ascetics could not be apart of the world and had to get away from it and either only be around Christians (mostly) OR by themselves..

I really don't feel I am cut out for any kind of life in this type of anti-Christian society, and that's me being 100% open and honest, and you and anyone else can think what you like of me, and judge me harshly for saying that.

[T00ts]

Early Christians lived like Jesus. They rarely made provision believing that God would provide. He did, for as long as commandments were kept.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't one of the commandments order death for anyone dishonouring their parents? A tad extreme no? And what about those unfortunates with appallingly abusive parents? Such parents deserve every dishonour under the sun, surely?

I haven't looked it up for the punishment. Moses law decreed so many misdeeds subject to death but Jesus fulfilled Moses law and then created His own Church and laid out the new laws of love and forgiveness. These I understand were retrospective and eternal life was made available to those who lived BC as well as AD.

I believe the Gospel that there will ultimate judgement. We all have the gift of repentance and that is really important. Even those who do quite bad things can repent and be forgiven. I do believe there are a couple of exceptions. I also believe that at Judgement Jesus will show mitigation for us where it is relevant.

[srb7677]

And Father Christmas pops round every year too.

Well, you started a thread which tried to disrespect the Saviour of the World. Did you expect to get away with it scot free?

No, to be totally honest. I expected criticism from the right especially. But no actual disrespect was intended on my part. That Jesus exhibited socialist values is in fact very noble in my book.

[srb7677]

Early Christians lived like Jesus. They rarely made provision believing that God would provide. He did, for as long as commandments were kept.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't one of the commandments order death for anyone dishonouring their parents? A tad extreme no? And what about those unfortunates with appallingly abusive parents? Such parents deserve every dishonour under the sun, surely?

[T00ts]

Have a look into the early Christian communities in Antioch in 4AD.

That's what communism PURPORTS to be but NEVER is.

That's the kind of society I'd like to live in, but I don't want anyone else to be forced to live under *MY* idea of a perfect society. That's why I believe in a world where folks have the system of their choosing and everyone isn't forced to live under ONE system - be it communism, capitalism, Christian Theocracy, islamic theocracy etc. I'm certain that's how things are best.

...and that is exactly as it is. Regimes are created with and without faiths and doctrines.  Human beings are free to choose. Not necessarily by people here on earth - but that's not God's fault. He doesn't micro-manage. We are all the product of choices and decisions of the past - unless of course individuals are prepared to stand out from the crowd around them and choose what they feel is right.

Early Christians lived like Jesus. They rarely made provision believing that God would provide. He did, for as long as commandments were kept.

I agree with the last part, and I want to live under that kind of society again, the closest I've seen is the inner workings of Orthodox monasteries. I'm happy and content with that - but I'm not ascetic enough to be a monk, therefore I want something in a society as similar as possible.

But you are completely wrong "...and that is exactly as it is. ".

No not at all - America, Russia, China etc and historic superpowers always dictate how every other country should be.

That can never be just, and yes Orthodox societies did it too..the Kievan Rus attacked and attempted invasion of the Byzantines  - and vice versa - multi times over.

And they were wrong to do that. It cannot be justified -

I am saying it is right simply because it is of our choosing. It is how history has panned out because of choices gone before. I don't mean your choice or mine last week. I mean generational choices, historical choices. We do  have complete choice as to how we live day to day. You can choose to work or steal. You can choose to get drunk or not. You can choose to use obscene language or not. Life is full of individual choices. Those are the choices governed by the individual and can be lived just because you have decided. What would be wrong would be force that would make us all believe in God and Christ in the same way.

Choice is the whole reason for living a human life. This is a time of test. Sorry if that's too full on!

Sure it's a time of testing.

But WE did not make those choices - cruel dictators did.

Please do not conflate people like me and yourself in with them, hopefully we would both have been resisting their tyranny in the old days as God would surely expect?

You are justifying the way the world is, but God expects the exact opposite. The true Christians were rebels remember? They died fighting against whatever kind of tyranny and defended everyone's right to be free - NOT just other Christians.

I can't state how much I disagree with your premise that we should embrace the world as it is, that is exactly the opposite to how I think.

But it is true that we should take sole responsibility for our actions and those are our choices - no one else's choices to do evil should be conflated with OUR choices

Gosh is that how my post read? That's not what I was trying to say. I largely agree with you.Let me try again. I don't think we should embrace the world at all in fact my mantra is to live in the world but not of it. I appreciate that the world is not governed by my choices or principles only my own life. Early Christians I believe were viewed as rebels but they were only really concerned with spreading the word of God and Jesus' message. They thought that the 2nd coming was imminent so were desperate to get the message out as far and wide as they could. Others viewed them as rebels through fear as much as anything.

God expects and hopes that each one of us will follow Our Saviour Jesus and each one of us whatever our circumstances in life has that same choice. Is that clearer?

[Borg Refinery]

"camel shovers"

My 1st cousin looks like a camel, that's why I married her.

[Borg Refinery]

Have a look into the early Christian communities in Antioch in 4AD.

That's what communism PURPORTS to be but NEVER is.

That's the kind of society I'd like to live in, but I don't want anyone else to be forced to live under *MY* idea of a perfect society. That's why I believe in a world where folks have the system of their choosing and everyone isn't forced to live under ONE system - be it communism, capitalism, Christian Theocracy, islamic theocracy etc. I'm certain that's how things are best.

...and that is exactly as it is. Regimes are created with and without faiths and doctrines.  Human beings are free to choose. Not necessarily by people here on earth - but that's not God's fault. He doesn't micro-manage. We are all the product of choices and decisions of the past - unless of course individuals are prepared to stand out from the crowd around them and choose what they feel is right.

Early Christians lived like Jesus. They rarely made provision believing that God would provide. He did, for as long as commandments were kept.

I agree with the last part, and I want to live under that kind of society again, the closest I've seen is the inner workings of Orthodox monasteries. I'm happy and content with that - but I'm not ascetic enough to be a monk, therefore I want something in a society as similar as possible.

But you are completely wrong "...and that is exactly as it is. ".

No not at all - America, Russia, China etc and historic superpowers always dictate how every other country should be.

That can never be just, and yes Orthodox societies did it too..the Kievan Rus attacked and attempted invasion of the Byzantines  - and vice versa - multi times over.

And they were wrong to do that. It cannot be justified -

I am saying it is right simply because it is of our choosing. It is how history has panned out because of choices gone before. I don't mean your choice or mine last week. I mean generational choices, historical choices. We do  have complete choice as to how we live day to day. You can choose to work or steal. You can choose to get drunk or not. You can choose to use obscene language or not. Life is full of individual choices. Those are the choices governed by the individual and can be lived just because you have decided. What would be wrong would be force that would make us all believe in God and Christ in the same way.

Choice is the whole reason for living a human life. This is a time of test. Sorry if that's too full on!

Sure it's a time of testing.

But WE did not make those choices - cruel dictators did.

Please do not conflate people like me and yourself in with them, hopefully we would both have been resisting their tyranny in the old days as God would surely expect?

You are justifying the way the world is, but God expects the exact opposite. The true Christians were rebels remember? They died fighting against whatever kind of tyranny and defended everyone's right to be free - NOT just other Christians.

I can't state how much I disagree with your premise that we should embrace the world as it is, that is exactly the opposite to how I think.

But it is true that we should take sole responsibility for our actions and those are our choices - no one else's choices to do evil should be conflated with OUR choices

[srb7677]

Supposedly it was easier to shove a camel through the eye of a needle.

There are plenty of "Camel Shovers" about these days.

And "sheep shovers" - especially in Thomas's neck of the woods, .