The Folly of Blaming the EU For Everything - as Told by Bojo

[Baff]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-secret-pro-eu-article-revealed-expressing-doubts-brexit-a7363781.html
Boris' take on this article now is that he wrote it two days before telling cameron to shove it to focus his mind, i think he wrote it to seal a pact akin to that brown and blair agreed, then boris smelled a rat

Propaganda I'm afraid. A half truth.
It's part of a two parter in which Boris argues both for and against EU membership.
A devils advocate piece.

If you take that one article in isolation of the other 20 odd years of his writing....
Or indeed it's sister piece....

You would get the wrong idea.

[johnofgwent]

I read the Torygraph and the Spectator.

Boris was always anti EU.

I did think in the run up to the referendum that he didn't know which way to go.
Sat on the fence for a long time before declaring for leave.
So I don't think it is his biggest concern in life. Becoming PM was more important to him in my eyes.
As such I think it is perfectly possible he will sell us out if he sees enough advantage to himself in doing so.
But I also believe that right now, Brexit is the only popular thing he has got.
So I am not expecting him to.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-secret-pro-eu-article-revealed-expressing-doubts-brexit-a7363781.html
Boris' take on this article now is that he wrote it two days before telling cameron to shove it to focus his mind, i think he wrote it to seal a pact akin to that brown and blair agreed, then boris smelled a rat

[Baff]

I don't seem to have stuck my oar in this thread before...

I think everybody knows Boris was a Bullingdon Club remoaner, a staunch ally of his fellow Bullingdon drunkards on the front bench. And the one day he opened his eyes, realised a crucifixion was on the cards and decided it was time to jump on the bus....

What confuses me is why Dynamis dug up this quote from when the weeble was wobbling in favour of the EU.

Is it supposed to make me believe the great opportunist was actually espousing a genuine belief that we should remain ?

I know he was preaching the gospel of remain ... But in the 80s we had an archbishop of York who said he wasn't convinced about the resurrection...

I read the Torygraph and the Spectator.

Boris was always anti EU.

I did think in the run up to the referendum that he didn't know which way to go.
Sat on the fence for a long time before declaring for leave.
So I don't think it is his biggest concern in life. Becoming PM was more important to him in my eyes.
As such I think it is perfectly possible he will sell us out if he sees enough advantage to himself in doing so.
But I also believe that right now, Brexit is the only popular thing he has got.
So I am not expecting him to.

[johnofgwent]

I don't seem to have stuck my oar in this thread before...

I think everybody knows Boris was a Bullingdon Club remoaner, a staunch ally of his fellow Bullingdon drunkards on the front bench. And the one day he opened his eyes, realised a crucifixion was on the cards and decided it was time to jump on the bus....

What confuses me is why Dynamis dug up this quote from when the weeble was wobbling in favour of the EU.

Is it supposed to make me believe the great opportunist was actually espousing a genuine belief that we should remain ?

I know he was preaching the gospel of remain ... But in the 80s we had an archbishop of York who said he wasn't convinced about the resurrection...

[patman post]

If you are trying to discuss the impact of the boycott of the Sun Newspaper, you need to consider the areas where that boycott was in place and not all the surrounding towns as well, so I think Nick is trying to compare apples to pears.

Do you really think The Sun (or any news media in the free world) has that much influence?
Murdoch — like most media owners — follows the trends. His media doesn't lead, it follows. He doesn't want to be on the losing side.
Look at Fox deserting Trump when the swing was inexorably towards Biden. Or The Sun's own polling in 1992 which indicated voters' distrust of Kinnock and preference for Major, when the majority of pundits were forecasting a hung parliament. It's The Sun Wot Won It was a Trump-like claim

News media reports and uncovers — owners' opinions don't influence what's changing anyway...

[Sheepy]

Who blames the EU for everything? just all the shit they have created since they slyly formed.

[Borg Refinery]

Agree - Warrington and Cheshire West are not part of Merseyside in any definition I'm aware of.

Mad int it..

On the second point, I'm not clear what you mean - either the majority voted leave or remain - it can't be both.  I think often when people think of Merseyside they think of the urban areas immediately around Liverpool.

IIRC the 'popular vote' went to Remain because Liverpool skews the figure, but by FPTP rules, the vote went to Brexit.

If you are trying to discuss the impact of the boycott of the Sun Newspaper, you need to consider the areas where that boycott was in place and not all the surrounding towns as well, so I think Nick is trying to compare apples to pears.

No change there then.

[Sheepy]

Well who could possibly blame the EU for anything.
https://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/britain-europe-bruges-group/

[Nick]

Agree - Warrington and Cheshire West are not part of Merseyside in any definition I'm aware of.

On the second point, I'm not clear what you mean - either the majority voted leave or remain - it can't be both.  I think often when people think of Merseyside they think of the urban areas immediately around Liverpool.

If you are trying to discuss the impact of the boycott of the Sun Newspaper, you need to consider the areas where that boycott was in place and not all the surrounding towns as well, so I think Nick is trying to compare apples to pears.

I'm not comparing anything, I merely stated that Merseyside as a whole voted leave, which they did. Even without Warrington and Cheshire.

[Javert]

..what's Warrington and Cheshire West doing on the list? They're in Cheshire, just checked to be sure.

Btw in terms of actual voters in Merseyside, the total majority voted remain according to the liverpool echo, but you are technically right that a majority vote share % went to leave in the end, as I checked elsewhere earlier. But still the boycott supposedly reduced it by 10% more than it would have or they'd have voted leave more overwhelmingly.

Agree - Warrington and Cheshire West are not part of Merseyside in any definition I'm aware of.

On the second point, I'm not clear what you mean - either the majority voted leave or remain - it can't be both.  I think often when people think of Merseyside they think of the urban areas immediately around Liverpool.

If you are trying to discuss the impact of the boycott of the Sun Newspaper, you need to consider the areas where that boycott was in place and not all the surrounding towns as well, so I think Nick is trying to compare apples to pears.

[Thomas]

He asked 3 people what they thought in a survey, one was him the other his wife and the third the postman.

He is talking bollocks as per normal.

The biggest political issue of the last 5 years for example has been brexit.  Two of the four uk nations votes leave , two voted remain , so how is that evidence of the whole of "britain" lapping up propaganda?

The very argument of remainers for the last four years has been that exact argument , that the vote was very close across the uk and the uk badly divided  .

With the power of the british state , i would have thought that a vote for remain overwhelmingly could be construed as the public lapping up propaganda , but that never happened did it? The very fact the majority voted leave in my opinion shows the public very definetly didnt lap up propaganda.

[Borg Refinery]

Only 3 out of 5 wards voted remain, 63% voted leave. That's pretty conclusive don't you think?

Warrington should be 45.7%, that's the Beeb's bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36619565

...what's Warrington and Cheshire West doing on the list? They're in Cheshire, just checked to be sure.

Btw in terms of actual voters in Merseyside, the total majority voted remain according to the liverpool echo, but you are technically right that a majority vote share % went to leave in the end, as I checked elsewhere earlier. But still the boycott supposedly reduced it by 10% more than it would have or they'd have voted leave more overwhelmingly.

[Nick]

Huh? It says 'reduced it by 10%', where Wirral, Sefton and Liverpool voted remain. Anyway Liverpool is where the Sun boycott is obviously centered so obviously it would reduce it there most of all.. weighting the results for the whole county from there, mostly.. 

Only 3 out of 5 wards voted remain, 63% voted leave. That's pretty conclusive don't you think?

Warrington should be 45.7%, that's the Beeb's bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36619565

[Borg Refinery]

Huh? It says 'reduced it by 10%', where Wirral, Sefton and Liverpool voted remain. Anyway Liverpool is where the Sun boycott is obviously centered so obviously it would reduce it there most of all.. weighting the results for the whole county from there, mostly.. 

[Nick]

You see, in Merseyside they had the right idea.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liverpool-sun-boycott-merseyside-hillsborough-disaster-a9081331.html%3famp

What a load of cobblers. For a start Merseyside voted leave so that's your argument gone right there. I live in Merseyside unfortunately, used to be Lancashire until the boundary change. Merseyside voted inline with the Labour Party, all over the place but overall leave.