How good news is made to look like bad news

[Borg Refinery]

Fair enough, but others are jumping on them. I'm not saying GS are a pillar of virtue but what they did wasn't subject to any meaningful banking oversight which would have helped to prevent what did transpire in 2008.

Fair enough. I expanded on that here if you are interested?

https://pol-tics.com/index.php/topic,2200.0.html

Just talking Brexit constantly gets boring I think.

Japan has mostly internal debt, if that was externally held Japan would be close to bankrupt. It is living beyond it's means, the Govt constantly issuing bonds and the funds given to the bank of Japan, the borrowing cycle continues. It's being called a Zombie state with 28% of it's population over 65 and 60% between 15 and 64. With few youths the country is heading for tough times. For decades it has lived well beyond it's means, the Govt borrows and relies on the next generation to pay that debt, in 2010 the Japan population was 128.5m and today it's 126.5 and continues to fall.
Japan just prints more money and devalues it's currency. None of this is sustainable. This is not an example of how countries can function.

Possibly, but the entire economic system isn't stable. We exist on speculative bubbles to fuel our insane consumer spending which now accounts, even in the us, for what.. 70% of their economy now? That is really crazy. At least they semi try to look after their own in Japan.

I never said that, countries in the EU need to step up (especially IRL) and have a robust bank regulator, since 2008 that has being happening in IRL,

Yes but we aren't discussing IRL, it's the whole EU. Which will effect you if other countries have weak banking systems left untested and they crash and the contagion spreads.

..Then you will be reduced to this.

I don't know about other countries. The EU can issue financial indicators to keep countries within certain metrics but the EU is not a governance body controlling things, the EU is not a country.

Thanks for the insight!

Like you said, they must issue guidance, but the current system is sufficient provided it's tightened up.

[GerryT]

Not from me, I have criticised them consistently.

Fair enough, but others are jumping on them. I'm not saying GS are a pillar of virtue but what they did wasn't subject to any meaningful banking oversight which would have helped to prevent what did transpire in 2008.

Japan is living beyond its means? No it isn't, virtually no economist has an issue with their economy as-is because of their debt. So you are wrong.

Austerity was a lie.

Japan has mostly internal debt, if that was externally held Japan would be close to bankrupt. It is living beyond it's means, the Govt constantly issuing bonds and the funds given to the bank of Japan, the borrowing cycle continues. It's being called a Zombie state with 28% of it's population over 65 and 60% between 15 and 64. With few youths the country is heading for tough times. For decades it has lived well beyond it's means, the Govt borrows and relies on the next generation to pay that debt, in 2010 the Japan population was 128.5m and today it's 126.5 and continues to fall.
Japan just prints more money and devalues it's currency. None of this is sustainable. This is not an example of how countries can function.

Ok then none of the banking systems will be robustly tested, prepare for a bigger crash next time when countries with corrupt govts water down regulations and try to pass very weak non-stress tests.

Very silly idea.

I never said that, countries in the EU need to step up (especially IRL) and have a robust bank regulator, since 2008 that has being happening in IRL, I don't know about other countries. The EU can issue financial indicators to keep countries within certain metrics but the EU is not a governance body controlling things, the EU is not a country.

[Borg Refinery]

I agree GS are the sort of company that should be held accountable for what it has done. Would I boycott them, no. Would I boycott companies like ABB who made the gas chambers during WW11 no or companies like Honeywell that make missile guidance systems no. The point I'm making is the criticism they receive because their leaving.

Not from me, I have criticised them consistently.

It's a basic concept to understand, having a high GDP:Debt ratio is not sound economics, unless all that borrow is planned for growth around the corner. Just because Japan is living beyond it's means doesn't mean others should.

Japan is living beyond its means? No it isn't, virtually no economist has an issue with their economy as-is because of their debt. So you are wrong.

Austerity was a lie.

What countries need to do is implement their testing. In IRL it was a joke and because the financial regulator wasn't doing his job running up to 2008 we took a big hit. The EU is not a country, each sovereign state controls its country, with guidelines from the EU. If a country wants to do XYZ it can provided its within EU agreed parameters. Its a typical Brexiteer misconceptio that the EU is this 3rd party ruling entity that demands what it wants from the members, just because thats how England has always done it with it's partners doesn't mean the EU is the same.

Ok then none of the banking systems will be robustly tested, prepare for a bigger crash next time when countries with corrupt govts water down regulations and try to pass very weak non-stress tests.

Very silly idea.

[GerryT]

Nope, you were saying you wanted the banks leaving the UK and then implied you would take GS, IF, it was on offer, when Sheep said he wouldn't wish GS on Dublin.
Yes or no would you want Sachs? The answer is yes so I'm right.
You then say that it has only just become a problem to me, implying we all think exactly alike in the UK. Like I have identical thoughts to anyone else.
Well no I don't, so you can kick that one, I maintained that we let the banks fail like in Iceland in 2008 just for a start, and I voted Corbyn in 2019 so don't even bother conflating my views with others.
In 2016 I pointed out that Sachs supporting remain made it impossible for me to support the remain campaign. Them along with the clueless cokehead Osborne and Cameron, who are still some of the worst top politicians we've ever had.

I agree GS are the sort of company that should be held accountable for what it has done. Would I boycott them, no. Would I boycott companies like ABB who made the gas chambers during WW11 no or companies like Honeywell that make missile guidance systems no. The point I'm making is the criticism they receive because their leaving.

Our economy is probably even worse than that in my opinion, but I don't subscribe to the bs economic orthodoxy anyway. Japan is at 240% of GDP but no one rips into them, and deflation is currently a bigger threat than inflation...

It's a basic concept to understand, having a high GDP:Debt ratio is not sound economics, unless all that borrow is planned for growth around the corner. Just because Japan is living beyond it's means doesn't mean others should.

Uh. Silly idea - you need a unified, agreed upon way to test the whole system across all EU countries given how interlinked it is.

What countries need to do is implement their testing. In IRL it was a joke and because the financial regulator wasn't doing his job running up to 2008 we took a big hit. The EU is not a country, each sovereign state controls its country, with guidelines from the EU. If a country wants to do XYZ it can provided its within EU agreed parameters. Its a typical Brexiteer misconceptio that the EU is this 3rd party ruling entity that demands what it wants from the members, just because thats how England has always done it with it's partners doesn't mean the EU is the same.

[Borg Refinery]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvxzam1Jj0M

Just like Rastani, people like him, those at GS, and the ratings agencies like S&P's, Moody's and Fitch also go to bed 'dreaming of another recession'.

[Borg Refinery]

GS is moving to Germany, but they were in the UK, so you were enjoying them and would have continued to enjoy them only for Brexit. Funny how is now a problem when their forced to leave.

Nope, you were saying you wanted the banks leaving the UK and then implied you would take GS, IF, it was on offer, when Sheep said he wouldn't wish GS on Dublin.

Yes or no would you want Sachs? The answer is yes so I'm right.

You then say that it has only just become a problem to me, implying we all think exactly alike in the UK. Like I have identical thoughts to anyone else.

Well no I don't, so you can kick that one, I maintained that we let the banks fail like in Iceland in 2008 just for a start, and I voted Corbyn in 2019 so don't even bother conflating my views with others.

In 2016 I pointed out that Sachs supporting remain made it impossible for me to support the remain campaign. Them along with the clueless cokehead Osborne and Cameron, who are still some of the worst top politicians we've ever had.

Why are all those in the UK at the moment ?
IRL was associated with the term in 2008 during the crash, but before that we had one of the lowest debt to GD ratios in the EU at 25%, rising to 120% but thankfully we've got it back to about 60% and falling. The UK is rising and up at 85%, should it now be the PIGUKS, doesn't have the same ring to it.

Our economy is probably even worse than that in my opinion, but I don't subscribe to the bs economic orthodoxy anyway. Japan is at 240% of GDP but no one rips into them, and deflation is currently a bigger threat than inflation...

Bank stress testing is and should be a countries responsibility in my opinion, I don't see why that would be a EU competence to test. But if that's what member states want they can do it that way.

Uh. Silly idea - you need a unified, agreed upon way to test the whole system across all EU countries given how interlinked it is.

[GerryT]

We are discussing GS specifically, but hey if you want one of the world's most corrupt institutions, enjoy.

GS is moving to Germany, but they were in the UK, so you were enjoying them and would have continued to enjoy them only for Brexit. Funny how is now a problem when their forced to leave.

Heh. You would be pleased if intl energy groups like Enron or even the big banks like Lehman Bro's or Worldcom had set up shop there too probably, and you wonder why Ireland's teetering-on-the-brink fiscal sector gets you included in the very discriminatory sounding "PIIGS" group?

Why are all those in the UK at the moment ?
IRL was associated with the term in 2008 during the crash, but before that we had one of the lowest debt to GD ratios in the EU at 25%, rising to 120% but thankfully we've got it back to about 60% and falling. The UK is rising and up at 85%, should it now be the PIGUKS, doesn't have the same ring to it.

EU banking stress tests really need to be tightened up btw.
EU condemns its own stress test procedures
VII
We found that - as key decisions at the EBA are taken by representatives of national supervisors - an EU-wide perspective was insufficiently taken into account in the design and implementation of the stress test. The impact is visible in the various phases of the stress test exercise.
VIII
At the start of the process, the EBA did not specify the risks nor the level of severity it deemed relevant for the stress-testing procedure. In turn, the ESRB who developed the stress scenario obtained substantial input from the ECB and national central banks and authorities. We found that, as a result, the EBA lacked control over important stages of the process and thus:
important systemic risks were subject to a low level of stress, or none at all;
the shock was not triggered by events from within the EU financial system but by an economic downturn;
the intensity of the economic shocks varied significantly from country to country, with the shock often being less severe where the economy was weaker and the financial system was more vulnerable. A minimum level of severity to generate stress was not ensured.
[/b]

http://publications.europa.eu/webpub/eca/special-reports/eba-stress-test-10-2019/en/

Bank stress testing is and should be a countries responsibility in my opinion, I don't see why that would be a EU competence to test. But if that's what member states want they can do it that way.

[johnofgwent]

Of the companies leaving the UK IRL has received the most. Being in the EU Dublin can catch the biggest fish out there. It is also English speaking and low corporate tax.

At the turn of the century, when Brown sought to screw people with S660 and his outragrous carrot enticing self employed idiots to incorporate so he could then screw them with the much less favourable tax treatment of directors and shareholders compared to owners of partnerships and the self employed, the Republic of Ireland mailbombed the members of the Federation of Small Business and the Professional Contractors Group with offers of massive tax savings if they established some form of physical presence in the republic. I was personally offered a max 10% CT on turnover laundered through a company i could run from a portakabin with minimal requirement to hop over on a Stena Sealink from time to time.
It's hardly surprising those taking advantage of these state sponsored tax avoidance schemes are now coming in for some stick, along with the government officers who encouraged it ...

[Sheepy]

I wouldn't wish Goldman Sachs on anyone Gerry, not even you.

[Borg Refinery]

Of the companies leaving the UK IRL has received the most. Being in the EU Dublin can catch the biggest fish out there. It is also English speaking and low corporate tax.

We are discussing GS specifically, but hey if you want one of the world's most corrupt institutions, enjoy.

Heh. You would be pleased if intl energy groups like Enron or even the big banks like Lehman Bro's or Worldcom had set up shop there too probably, and you wonder why Ireland's teetering-on-the-brink fiscal sector gets you included in the very discriminatory sounding "PIIGS" group?

EU banking stress tests really need to be tightened up btw.

EU condemns its own stress test procedures


VII
We found that - as key decisions at the EBA are taken by representatives of national supervisors - an EU-wide perspective was insufficiently taken into account in the design and implementation of the stress test. The impact is visible in the various phases of the stress test exercise.

VIII
At the start of the process, the EBA did not specify the risks nor the level of severity it deemed relevant for the stress-testing procedure. In turn, the ESRB who developed the stress scenario obtained substantial input from the ECB and national central banks and authorities. We found that, as a result, the EBA lacked control over important stages of the process and thus:

important systemic risks were subject to a low level of stress, or none at all;
the shock was not triggered by events from within the EU financial system but by an economic downturn;
the intensity of the economic shocks varied significantly from country to country, with the shock often being less severe where the economy was weaker and the financial system was more vulnerable. A minimum level of severity to generate stress was not ensured.
[/b]

http://publications.europa.eu/webpub/eca/special-reports/eba-stress-test-10-2019/en/

[GerryT]

Well you obviously don't have a clue how Goldman Sachs work, Dublin is small fry, they will be looking to eat much bigger fish.

Of the companies leaving the UK IRL has received the most. Being in the EU Dublin can catch the biggest fish out there. It is also English speaking and low corporate tax.

[Sheepy]

You did, and the article blames brexit on the move. The UK causing GS to move.

Then you suddenly have this big issue with GS and you want the blood suckers out. If GS were to stay would you want them out ?theere they blood suckers in 2015 or 2014, where's your posts demanding your local MP to have GS removed from the UK as their blood suckers.

Or is it just because their leaving the UK, their suddenly the bad boy on the block. Are there any more financial firms in London that you'd like them to pack their bags, you could start a list, get a petition going and send it to your local MP. If you could put on the end of that petition that we'll take them in Dublin that would be great, thanks.

Well you obviously don't have a clue how Goldman Sachs work, Dublin is small fry, they will be looking to eat much bigger fish.

[GerryT]

Are you on a wind up? I said why, before Dyno gave his link.

You did, and the article blames brexit on the move. The UK causing GS to move.

Then you suddenly have this big issue with GS and you want the blood suckers out. If GS were to stay would you want them out ?theere they blood suckers in 2015 or 2014, where's your posts demanding your local MP to have GS removed from the UK as their blood suckers.

Or is it just because their leaving the UK, their suddenly the bad boy on the block. Are there any more financial firms in London that you'd like them to pack their bags, you could start a list, get a petition going and send it to your local MP. If you could put on the end of that petition that we'll take them in Dublin that would be great, thanks.

[Sheepy]

Why do you want rid of them

Are you on a wind up? I said why, before Dyno gave his link.

[Borg Refinery]

Why do you want rid of them

Well helping to affect for the 2008 global recession might be one reason, a minor one but it's something.