Multiple voting

[Churchill]

Different nations have different legislation France has a problem same as us of not knowing who is in their country legally or more importantly with world wide terrorism on the increase who or what they are.



In this day and age there is a world wide industry making and selling forged documentation to suit all occasions, from simple UK National Insurance Cards, Medical and Educational Documents all the way up the line, bent officials selling genuine blank passports,



That is why I agree with you, that is why we need a proper ID card instantly checkable by the authorities  , that is difficult if at all possible but doubtful that cannot be easily forged, there is always a way around any security system but as least we could make it a difficult as possible

[papasmurf]

I agree I don't have a problem with it either it could cut crimes especially fraud and increase our security, for once we may just find out how many are in our country without permission and should not be here

I recently had to prove to the French government that I was NOT living in France. A lot more difficult than people might think.

(I think Macron wants to weed out Brits who are living in France under the radar.)



On the other hand the recent and ongoing Windrush scandal shows just how difficult it is to prove you are entitled to live in Britain.



I am, reluctantly,  of the opinion that ID cards are a necessity as is a DNA record from birth.

[Churchill]

Thank you for that lucid explanation. As someone who believes in the principle of ID cards (not racial profile cards) and I recall being angry that the Tories rejected the concept. Now I understand why, particularly as the Tories stand up for the principles of democracy, when the left of centre parties treat thenm with contempt. A lack of an effective ID system results in myriad abuses and crimes without detection on our society today.

I agree I don't have a problem with it either it could cut crimes especially fraud and increase our security, for once we may just find out how many are in our country without permission and should not be here

[Borg Refinery]

I am not sure why you should refer to the Tories, in isolation, as fraudulent unless you have a partial view, which you claim you don't but it is becoming increasingly obvious that in reality you do! Certainly it is a cruel jibe but with some justification; a justification which can be applied to all other political parties in this conglomerate nation of ours, and perhaps more strongly to one or two.



In reality as the OP I am the one who is 'bleating' on about the wide open avenues of abuse for multiple voting for which no one has been able to provide a cogent argument in repudiation.

I am absolutely biased, it's not a secret that I'm biased, never said otherwise - just that my position is a bit different to others.



Everyone is biased, I'm most suspicious of those who claim they aren't.



Absolutely Lab have engaged in fradulent activity too; so have others - but they're not the ones in power - and I tend to be especially critical of whoever's in power at the time.



The others here attempted to make out that it's all Lab voter activity in places like Tower Hamlets, so really I'm the one offering the other side of the argument which is or was so sorely lacking, as you can clearly see.



And I'm not even disputing your OP - you are correct. My reply was originally a response to Barry, then sheepy....I think.



Oh and 'fraudulent Tories' means senior politicians in the party, not just Tories as a whole.

[Nick]

Thank you for that lucid explanation. As someone who believes in the principle of ID cards (not racial profile cards) and I recall being angry that the Tories rejected the concept. Now I understand why, particularly as the Tories stand up for the principles of democracy, when the left of centre parties treat thenm with contempt. A lack of an effective ID system results in myriad abuses and crimes without detection on our society today.

👍



As someone who has nothing to hide, I totally agree with ID cards. I am happy to have a form of photo ID that stores purely my name, address and a small biometric identifier.

[Major Sinic]

The cards were removed because of the following.



The Act specified fifty categories of information that the National Identity Register could hold on each citizen,[1] including up to 10 fingerprints, digitised facial scan and iris scan, current and past UK and overseas places of residence of all residents of the UK throughout their lives and indexes to other Government databases (including National Insurance Number[2])



This wasn't as ID card it was a racial profile card, it was tantamount to living as a Jewish person in Germany during the war, an affront to human rights.

Quite rightly it was scrapped, an ID card is there to prove you are you, not to keep personal information on record.

Thank you for that lucid explanation. As someone who believes in the principle of ID cards (not racial profile cards) and I recall being angry that the Tories rejected the concept. Now I understand why, particularly as the Tories stand up for the principles of democracy, when the left of centre parties treat thenm with contempt. A lack of an effective ID system results in myriad abuses and crimes without detection on our society today.

[Nick]

I can sort of agree with this; the NO2ID movement was understandable within the wider context of NuLab attempts to introduce a super surveillance culture.



Personally, I'd say ID cards are a mixed blessing and I'm not sure they are a 'fix all' solution. Not sure about them one way or the other tbh. My point wasn't that they should've been introduced, but rather that it was principally the Tories (and LDs) who blocked em; and the Coalition govt who abolished them.....now the fradulent Tories are bleating on about electoral fraud. It's a bit silly, really, but I'm sure others here will fall for just about anything...

The cards were removed because of the following.



The Act specified fifty categories of information that the National Identity Register could hold on each citizen,[1] including up to 10 fingerprints, digitised facial scan and iris scan, current and past UK and overseas places of residence of all residents of the UK throughout their lives and indexes to other Government databases (including National Insurance Number[2])



This wasn't as ID card it was a racial profile card, it was tantamount to living as a Jewish person in Germany during the war, an affront to human rights.

Quite rightly it was scrapped, an ID card is there to prove you are you, not to keep personal information on record.

[Major Sinic]

I can sort of agree with this; the NO2ID movement was understandable within the wider context of NuLab attempts to introduce a super surveillance culture.



Personally, I'd say ID cards are a mixed blessing and I'm not sure they are a 'fix all' solution. Not sure about them one way or the other tbh. My point wasn't that they should've been introduced, but rather that it was principally the Tories (and LDs) who blocked em; and the Coalition govt who abolished them.....now the fradulent Tories are bleating on about electoral fraud. It's a bit silly, really, but I'm sure others here will fall for just about anything...

I am not sure why you should refer to the Tories, in isolation, as fraudulent unless you have a partial view, which you claim you don't but it is becoming increasingly obvious that in reality you do! Certainly it is a cruel jibe but with some justification; a justification which can be applied to all other political parties in this conglomerate nation of ours, and perhaps more strongly to one or two.



In reality as the OP I am the one who is 'bleating' on about the wide open avenues of abuse for multiple voting for which no one has been able to provide a cogent argument in repudiation.

[Borg Refinery]

I will tell what makes me laugh,immediately a cheat is found,you want to give up more freedom to avoid it,this is the age of the internet,freedom not throw it in at the first chance.

I can sort of agree with this; the NO2ID movement was understandable within the wider context of NuLab attempts to introduce a super surveillance culture.



Personally, I'd say ID cards are a mixed blessing and I'm not sure they are a 'fix all' solution. Not sure about them one way or the other tbh. My point wasn't that they should've been introduced, but rather that it was principally the Tories (and LDs) who blocked em; and the Coalition govt who abolished them.....now the fradulent Tories are bleating on about electoral fraud. It's a bit silly, really, but I'm sure others here will fall for just about anything...

[Nick]

Ah yes fraud fraud frauds indeed, like this piss...



http://www.electionexpenses.co.uk/">http://www.electionexpenses.co.uk/



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-39289195">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-39289195



https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/tory-mp-fiddled-election-expenses-to-see-off-nigel-farage-for-good-8044249/amp/">https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/tory-mp- ... 44249/amp/">https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/tory-mp-fiddled-election-expenses-to-see-off-nigel-farage-for-good-8044249/amp/



https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/09/craig-mackinlay-tory-mp-cleared-breaking-2015-general-election-expenses-rules">https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nses-rules">https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/09/craig-mackinlay-tory-mp-cleared-breaking-2015-general-election-expenses-rules



Fraud...they are a fraud.

And Boris was responsible for any of the above because of.....?  Oh none of them.



Your debating points are running at about minus 50 at the moment. Another few posts and we may just have your true identity, I am picking up a sent as we speak.

[Sheepy]

I will tell what makes me laugh,immediately a cheat is found,you want to give up more freedom to avoid it,this is the age of the internet,freedom not throw it in at the first chance.

[Borg Refinery]

Ah yes fraud fraud frauds indeed, like this piss...



http://www.electionexpenses.co.uk/">http://www.electionexpenses.co.uk/



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-39289195">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-39289195



https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/tory-mp-fiddled-election-expenses-to-see-off-nigel-farage-for-good-8044249/amp/">https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/tory-mp- ... 44249/amp/">https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/tory-mp-fiddled-election-expenses-to-see-off-nigel-farage-for-good-8044249/amp/



https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/09/craig-mackinlay-tory-mp-cleared-breaking-2015-general-election-expenses-rules">https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nses-rules">https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/09/craig-mackinlay-tory-mp-cleared-breaking-2015-general-election-expenses-rules



Fraud...they are a fraud.

[Churchill]

Yes and the complete farce in Tower Hamlets

[Nick]

Yes little has been found but even if small it can mean the difference of the person you voted losing the contest when the result is close, which happened in Scotland when the winner won by just two votes.

Like here



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7120267/Labours-election-victory-marred-claims-convicted-vote-rigger-centre-campaign.html">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... paign.html">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7120267/Labours-election-victory-marred-claims-convicted-vote-rigger-centre-campaign.html



Ex-local Labour branch secretary Tariq Mahmood received a 15-month prison sentence in 2008 for his part in a scheme to fabricate votes for a Peterborough council election.



He was photographed in the count area at the recent Peterborough bi-election where the BXP lost by a few votes.

[Churchill]

Electoral fraud has been much investigated with little found, the ID experiment denied to many people vote.

It is a ploy to decrease non-Tory votes.

Yes little has been found but even if small it can mean the difference of the person you voted for losing the contest when the result is close, which happened in Scotland when the winner won by just two votes.