Afghanistan - greatest foreign policy disaster of a generation?

[Sheepy]

The point here is that Fighting Terrorism or emancipating women were never the objectives in Afghanistan. They were Geopolitical, end of.
Twenty years ago, the US was at the height of its Unipolar moment. It was able to buy or bully access through other countries into Afghanistan to find ways to disrupt its emerging Geopolitical rivals in the Region.
Today all has totally changed and the rivals are now far stronger and far more united and actively unifying the Eurasian landmass. The routes the US had are closing down and the US does not have the clout to open them by force. Iran, China and Russia are now intractable enemies. Pakistan is a Chinese Ally and a member of Eurasian institutions. Turkmenistan (the other route via Turkey, and Georgia is now joining Russia's CSTO and that door is closing.
The US is getting out while it can and once gone it can never back in, all talk to the contrary is either Delusional, Hubris or plain cynical bollards.

Talk is cheap and always has been, let's be hoping the Chinese haven't bitten a big lump of more than they can chew then. Because the bodies are hanging up already.

[Sampanviking]

Well as already said some may celebrate the humbling of western (flawed) interventions but who'd be a woman living there or anyone not embedded in the stone age?

The point here is that Fighting Terrorism or emancipating women were never the objectives in Afghanistan. They were Geopolitical, end of.
Twenty years ago, the US was at the height of its Unipolar moment. It was able to buy or bully access through other countries into Afghanistan to find ways to disrupt its emerging Geopolitical rivals in the Region.
Today all has totally changed and the rivals are now far stronger and far more united and actively unifying the Eurasian landmass. The routes the US had are closing down and the US does not have the clout to open them by force. Iran, China and Russia are now intractable enemies. Pakistan is a Chinese Ally and a member of Eurasian institutions. Turkmenistan (the other route via Turkey, and Georgia is now joining Russia's CSTO and that door is closing.
The US is getting out while it can and once gone it can never back in, all talk to the contrary is either Delusional, Hubris or plain cynical bollards.

[Sheepy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-likely-to-recognize-taliban-as-afghan-rulers-with-fall-of-kabul/ar-AANlBlj?ocid=uxbndlbing
Oh really, who knew?
Thank feck for James Bond and Felix Writter then!

[cromwell]

I'm not having a go, I'm just pointing out the irony. We all seem surprised that we "can't win" a conventional war. I doubt there's been a war in history in which everyone observed the "rules".

Perhaps. Ask the women and the homosexuals of Afghanistan if they think it was worth winning.

Anyway, you're right. Stone age is the word

No mate and I wasn't having a go at you,war ain't pretty but wtf do I know I ain't experienced it......you have.

[johnofgwent]

Well I know you've told me before there is no morality,but we have fought wars in the past by observing the rules.....and won.

If we don't stand for anything nothing is worth winning.

I'm not so sure. A LOT of the rules seem to have been invented by the Americans after a victory on their side to try and create an environment where a force doing to the Americans what the Americans did to others would today be a war crime but wasn't when the yanks did it


Dropping a nuke on Norfolk navy base for example would today have an awful lot of lawyers up.in arms. I didn't see those lawyers whingeing about Hiroshima for example

[johnofgwent]

I can find no reporting of that.

The only reports I find are in the Times of India and a channel called MSNBC both of which report the Taliban have taken over the airbase and released prisoners held there


No reports of fighting ...

[DeppityDawg]

Well I know you've told me before there is no morality,but we have fought wars in the past by observing the rules.....and won.

I'm not having a go, I'm just pointing out the irony. We all seem surprised that we "can't win" a conventional war. I doubt there's been a war in history in which everyone observed the "rules".

If we don't stand for anything nothing is worth winning.

Perhaps. Ask the women and the homosexuals of Afghanistan if they think it was worth winning.

Anyway, you're right. Stone age is the word

[Sheepy]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/sanction-pakistan-fury-at-islamabad-over-taliban-surge-afghans-suffer-in-hell/ar-AANkJ1n?ocid=msedgntp
Yeah, well whatever.

[cromwell]

AND...

The "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" is born and likely to be declared today.

Well as already said some may celebrate the humbling of western (flawed) interventions but who'd be a woman living there or anyone not embedded in the stone age?

[Barry]

AND...

The "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" is born and likely to be declared today.

[cromwell]

We could defeat them conventionally. But we insist on making our forces fight by morally correct rules our enemy never had any intention of following.

Well I know you've told me before there is no morality,but we have fought wars in the past by observing the rules.....and won.

If we don't stand for anything nothing is worth winning.

[papasmurf]

Can anyone see any point at all in Bojo-The-Clown recalling Parliament next Wednesday?

[DeppityDawg]

I wasn't being totally serious about nuking them just illustrating that conventional war wont defeat them

We could defeat them conventionally. But we insist on making our forces fight by morally correct rules our enemy never had any intention of following.

[Sampanviking]

Then perhaps you could put me back on track and explain what you understand the subject in hand to be — make it from your usual anti-Western standpoint though, in order not to disappoint...

Very easily, the discussion you started, was about overspill of unrest across Afghanistan's International borders. You listed the countries that had borders with Afghanistan and listed India, despite, India only holding a claim of territory under the control of Pakistan (bordering Afghanistan).
The point being as Indian forces and Indian controlled territories are hundreds of miles from the Afghan Pakistan border, the likelihood of overspill into India is none existent.

In the event, the course of events makes any overspill look very unlikely as the nationwide uprising against the US Installed puppet government now seems as complete as it has been largely peaceful. (There you go, didn't want to disappoint).

[patman post]

...and not about to change and so utterly irrelevant to the subject in hand..

Then perhaps you could put me back on track and explain what you understand the subject in hand to be — make it from your usual anti-Western standpoint though, in order not to disappoint...