From some anti vaxxers

[Thomas]

And with this post and Steve's,the death of another mp shows the direction we are going and it's not good.

I'm all for free speech but not some of the madness that poses as it,a handle needs to be got on this not that I expect this to be a popular notion.

im not sure i understand what you mean here cromwell. I thought the mp who was stabbed was done in by a black somalian , and that the death is now being treated as a terrorist incident? So im not sure how his death links with the "madness of uncontrolled free speech" possibly linked to the internet if im reading your insinuation correct.

Terrorism , and stabbings long predate the internet cromwell. There has never been  a golden age of peace and tranquility , the internet hasnt made things worse , merely offered another platform for a  small minority of lunatics to use , but the risks are far far outweighed by the rewards.

The IRA were bombing and killing long before the interwebby , people were being radicalised long before computers , its nothing new.

I think there is a tendency to perceive the past in rose tinted glasses at times , i think the world is a better place now than it has been throughout much of history. Its not without fault , and far from perfect , but neither was the past either.

Humans have more information at their fingertips now than at any age in mankinds history and i for one think its a great thing.

[T00ts]

And with this post and Steve's,the death of another mp shows the direction we are going and it's not good.

I'm all for free speech but not some of the madness that poses as it,a handle needs to be got on this not that I expect this to be a popular notion.

When we raise children we are constantly advised to make clear boundaries. This not only shows them the limits on behaviour but also gives them guidelines on their own self control. Sadly too many either have not heard or understood those boundaries or imagine that being an adult means that they no longer apply.

We will reap what we sow. We all know it isn't everyone but the silent majority really needs to stand up and be counted.

[cromwell]

I heard a description of the modern world very recently where it is described as a game without goals. When society has few standards and even those can be obliterated just because some don't agree with them, it ends up with the ball just being thrown up in the air and wherever it lands it scores a point.

I thought it was a pretty good description of where we are. I don't think that is particularly new but the problem is that the internet gives every notion, good or bad, sensible or otherwise an equal platform.

And with this post and Steve's,the death of another mp shows the direction we are going and it's not good.

I'm all for free speech but not some of the madness that poses as it,a handle needs to be got on this not that I expect this to be a popular notion.

[srb7677]

Interesting,still it seems almost everybody hates the beeb.

In essence, the right hate the BBC for being too woke, whilst the left hate the BBC for beinmg too establishmentarian.

[Barry]

You see that paper marked fake.
It's all true.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/BDA1/production/_121054584_nhs-fake-v2.jpg

[cromwell]

Interesting,still it seems almost everybody hates the beeb.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58783711

[T00ts]

I heard a description of the modern world very recently where it is described as a game without goals. When society has few standards and even those can be obliterated just because some don't agree with them, it ends up with the ball just being thrown up in the air and wherever it lands it scores a point.

I thought it was a pretty good description of where we are. I don't think that is particularly new but the problem is that the internet gives every notion, good or bad, sensible or otherwise an equal platform.

[cromwell]

I once thought that the transmission of free information on the internet was an unreservedly good thing, breaking the monopoly on opinion forming by the wealthy elites. That the internet was somewhere everyone could be heard and every opinion heard, a true democratising of news and information.

And there has in fact been an element of this. Fewer people, especially amongst younger age groups, watch anything as much broadcast news. And fewer people, especially younger ones, ever buy a newspaper, whose circulations have been declining steadily. And a wealth of news sites, discussion shows and opinion blogs representing every part of the political spectrum has risen up on the internet instead. There is because of this a growing plurality of views and a greater questioning, by growing numbers, of the established media narrative. Which is all good so far.

But there are massive downsides that initially I failed to see or at least underestimated. Not least is the ability of every nutter and his grandad to get the crankiest of views out there. When this is combined with the tendency of many to seek out confirmation bias, ie to only listen to or see what they already agree with or want to choose to believe, then the internet is taylor made for the growth of the wackiest conspiracy theories. A flat earther's paradise. And the extent to which nation states can use the internet to shift opinions in other states by skewed or even false information, thereby subverting the democratic process in democracies, is deeply concerning. I don't doubt that the democratic states themselves will be engaged in similar opinion forming click bait.  And powerful interest groups within states will also increasingly be starting to do the same.

The democratisation of  information risks being subverted by targeted misinformation from hostile states and from powerful interest groups within states. All of it competing with a variety of wacky conspiracy theories. The main problem those of us who use it for onformation have with the internet is trying to sift fact from fiction. Because it is human nature to experience confirmation bias. Because the fact remains that even intelligent people on a forum such as this are still more likely to believe something we like the look or sound of than something we dislike the look or sound of. And that includes me. It is the way our minds work. A tendency to believe what we want to believe is something con artists of every stripe have long exploited

Good post Steve,always good to question yourself or what is being told.

COVID has indeed been a conspiracy paradise and when it's all over no doubt it'll be back to phone masts and god knows what else.

I find it hard to comprehend some of the crap people swallow and I always thought the human race in the developed world at least had left behind the fears of their forefathers through education tbh I think they are worse than the superstitious of old.

[srb7677]

I just saw an article on the Guardian website that commented on the growing amorphous mass of people believing in various crackpot conspiracy theories and how these people were easy pickings for extremist political movements of all shades.

There have always been conspiracy theories but generally the main publicity any of them got was by means of critical features in the mainstream media which ridiculed them. There were books by Von Daniken and various fringe magazines but that's very different to the current situation where you can go straight to conspiracy websites and even participate in their forums or chats anonymously like we do on here.

I once thought that the transmission of free information on the internet was an unreservedly good thing, breaking the monopoly on opinion forming by the wealthy elites. That the internet was somewhere everyone could be heard and every opinion heard, a true democratising of news and information.

And there has in fact been an element of this. Fewer people, especially amongst younger age groups, watch anything as much broadcast news. And fewer people, especially younger ones, ever buy a newspaper, whose circulations have been declining steadily. And a wealth of news sites, discussion shows and opinion blogs representing every part of the political spectrum has risen up on the internet instead. There is because of this a growing plurality of views and a greater questioning, by growing numbers, of the established media narrative. Which is all good so far.

But there are massive downsides that initially I failed to see or at least underestimated. Not least is the ability of every nutter and his grandad to get the crankiest of views out there. When this is combined with the tendency of many to seek out confirmation bias, ie to only listen to or see what they already agree with or want to choose to believe, then the internet is taylor made for the growth of the wackiest conspiracy theories. A flat earther's paradise. And the extent to which nation states can use the internet to shift opinions in other states by skewed or even false information, thereby subverting the democratic process in democracies, is deeply concerning. I don't doubt that the democratic states themselves will be engaged in similar opinion forming click bait.  And powerful interest groups within states will also increasingly be starting to do the same.

The democratisation of  information risks being subverted by targeted misinformation from hostile states and from powerful interest groups within states. All of it competing with a variety of wacky conspiracy theories. The main problem those of us who use it for onformation have with the internet is trying to sift fact from fiction. Because it is human nature to experience confirmation bias. Because the fact remains that even intelligent people on a forum such as this are still more likely to believe something we like the look or sound of than something we dislike the look or sound of. And that includes me. It is the way our minds work. A tendency to believe what we want to believe is something con artists of every stripe have long exploited

[HDQQ]

I just saw an article on the Guardian website that commented on the growing amorphous mass of people believing in various crackpot conspiracy theories and how these people were easy pickings for extremist political movements of all shades.

There have always been conspiracy theories but generally the main publicity any of them got was by means of critical features in the mainstream media which ridiculed them. There were books by Von Daniken and various fringe magazines but that's very different to the current situation where you can go straight to conspiracy websites and even participate in their forums or chats anonymously like we do on here.

[Nick]

To be fair there seem to be quite a few on this forum full of conspiracy theorists who seem to believe idiocies based on shite they find on the internet.

If it were possible to break new scientific ground just by reading and sharing shite on the internet, this place would be full of learned professors, .

If you've got something to say either say it in an already established and relative thread or start a new one. Don't just go around leaving droppings like a mouse all over the place and hijacking other threads.

[srb7677]

You said it and it's on the internet so it must be true.

To be fair there seem to be quite a few on this forum full of conspiracy theorists who seem to believe idiocies based on shite they find on the internet.

If it were possible to break new scientific ground just by reading and sharing shite on the internet, this place would be full of learned professors, .

[HDQQ]

That should shorten the life expectancy of millions.

You said it and it's on the internet so it must be true.

[T00ts]

It's hard to know who and what to believe. We've had governments lying to us sending us to war. We've had the Chinese scientists or UK scientists lying to us (both can't be right).
We have differing views presented to us, as srb says, through algorithms. Which is why I deliberately choose to follow people with opposing views to my own on Twitter to try to gain a balanced view.
The world is indeed going mad in the general sense and in the technical sense - as 200,000 young people are referred to mental health teams, double that which was going on a couple of years ago.
Australian Police beating men women and firing rubber bullets at children in the streets - to protect them!!!

What next and do we believe it?

You know what next and what to believe. The father of all lies is working overtime to lead all away. Mental health, in-fighting, disbelief, disarray, false witness, lawlessness - the list is endless and growing daily.  It is time to hold tight to the real truth and let the deceit go by the wayside. There is a war going on for hearts and minds.

[Barry]

It's hard to know who and what to believe. We've had governments lying to us sending us to war. We've had the Chinese scientists or UK scientists lying to us (both can't be right).
We have differing views presented to us, as srb says, through algorithms. Which is why I deliberately choose to follow people with opposing views to my own on Twitter to try to gain a balanced view.
The world is indeed going mad in the general sense and in the technical sense - as 200,000 young people are referred to mental health teams, double that which was going on a couple of years ago.
Australian Police beating men women and firing rubber bullets at children in the streets - to protect them!!!

What next and do we believe it?