Yesterday UK had highest number of new covid cases of any country.

[Nick]

That's completely wrong, Nick.  Any PCR test has a probability of false positive and false negative.  If the false positives outweigh the false negatives, then there there will be a certain amount of extra positives, beyond the actual amount.  If a CT of 30 produces only 1% extra positives (101 positives out of 1000, when there are actually 100 cases), then you are amplifying that 1% by increasing the CT, until you reach a point where every single test would be positive.

The CT is a heat cycle that promotes multiplication of the cells, and like I said if there is no cells containing virus you can multiply till the cows come home and you'll still have no virus.
So where is your false positive coming from?

[Scott777]

The high Ct shows that the PCR test is showing very small levels of Covid, it doesn't matter how many times you cycle it to increase the count if it's negative it stays negative.
Zero times any number is still zero, which is not what Scott is saying. He is saying it is producing false readings, which it's not.

That's completely wrong, Nick.  Any PCR test has a probability of false positive and false negative.  If the false positives outweigh the false negatives, then there there will be a certain amount of extra positives, beyond the actual amount.  If a CT of 30 produces only 1% extra positives (101 positives out of 1000, when there are actually 100 cases), then you are amplifying that 1% by increasing the CT, until you reach a point where every single test would be positive.

[Barry]

Different assertions and you moved the goalposts, Nick.

The last lines of your link:

So the idea that positive tests with high Ct values are "invalid" and should be dismissed is [highlight]overly simplistic[/highlight]. 

But not entirely wrong.

[Nick]

You should take time to read your own link.
Scott's assertion We know the PCR produced very high rate of false positives at 35 cycle threshold is true. Furthermore, the NHS have been using Ct up to 40, increasing the likelihood of false positives even further.

Having said that, even at the lowest points in the epidemic, PCR tests have only shown less than 1% positive, so they are not terrible. The problem when there are very few people actually positive is that those <1% can be a majority of false positives.

And you should read what the assertion is and what the outcome was.




The high Ct shows that the PCR test is showing very small levels of Covid, it doesn't matter how many times you cycle it to increase the count if it's negative it stays negative. Zero times any number is still zero, which is not what Scott is saying. He is saying it is producing false readings, which it's not.

Not just new, but the media say more dangerous, while MPs chop and change, generally creating the impression it is dangerous.  That was clearly used to justify vaccines.  Matt Hancock, for example, gains because he has (or had) shares in Porton Biopharma Ltd, a vaccine company.For example, it was WITH positive test within a period that was then reduced to 28 days.  That reduced the cases and deaths that could be attributed to Covid.  Still, the tests are BS.  [highlight]We know the PCR produced very high rate of false positives at 35 cycle threshold.[/highlight]  Again, that means more deaths attributed falsely to Covid, as JOG has pointed out (being hit by a bus, or whatever, and having a positive test, means a Covid death, even if they had no illness).

[Barry]

Fake news I'm afraid.

https://fullfact.org/health/cycle-threshold-values/

You should take time to read your own link.
Scott's assertion We know the PCR produced very high rate of false positives at 35 cycle threshold  is true. Furthermore, the NHS have been using Ct up to 40, increasing the likelihood of false positives even further.

Having said that, even at the lowest points in the epidemic, PCR tests have only shown less than 1% positive, so they are not terrible. The problem when there are very few people actually positive is that those <1% can be a majority of false positives.

[Thomas]

Europe
Lockdowns, record COVID-19 deaths hit Russia, Eastern Europe as region spurns vaccines

r 19, 2021. REUTERS/Maxim Shemetov

• Summary

• Russia reports record daily COVID-19 death toll
• Putin approves nationwide one-week workplace shutdown
• Latvia announces four-week lockdown as infections spike
• Romania records world's highest per capita death rate this week
• Bulgaria makes COVID 'green certificate' compulsory for leisure

PLOIESTI, Romania/MOSCOW, Oct 20 (Reuters) - Russia will shut workplaces for a week, Latvia went back into lockdown for a month and Romanian funeral homes are running out of coffins, as vaccine-sceptic countries across ex-communist Eastern Europe face record-setting disease and deaths.
Russia, which boasted of developing one of the earliest COVID-19 vaccines, has been unable to persuade large swathes of the population to take it, and is now facing its highest daily death rates of the pandemic.

President Vladimir Putin announced on Wednesday that the period from Oct. 30-Nov. 7 would be "non-working days", although salaries would still be paid. Individual regions could extend the shutdown for longer in response to local conditions.


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lockdowns-record-covid-19-deaths-hit-russia-eastern-europe-region-spurns-2021-10-20/

[Thomas]

You are right that we are finding lots of cases but then we do test an awful lot compared to some. I saw stats yesterday that revealed that many of those who were going to die of Covid now have. The very elderly, those with underlying conditions etc and that although infections have risen deaths haven't in relation to them. I don't believe everything I hear or read and today while having my booster was warned to still go carefully. Although the 'vaccine' is not fool proof it does seem to be slowly reducing the severity. Today's booster appears to be over 95% effective and for those of us prepared to take the risk of having it perhaps those refusing should thank us for putting our lives at risk to save others.

I see the austrian chancellor has threatened to lockdown the unvaccinated as thier cases continue to rise...

Covid: Austrian chancellor threatens lockdown for unvaccinated

Unvaccinated people in Austria could face new lockdown restrictions if coronavirus case numbers continue to rise, Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg has said.

The news came after a meeting on Friday evening between Mr Schallenberg and state-level leaders to discuss their response to rapidly increasing case numbers.
"The pandemic is not yet in the rear-view mirror," Mr Schallenberg said. "We are about to stumble into a pandemic of the unvaccinated."
Mr Schallenberg announced that if the number of Covid-19 patients in intensive care units (ICU) reaches 500, or 25% of the country's total ICU capacity, entry into businesses such as restaurants and hotels will be limited to those who are vaccinated or recovered from the virus.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/covid-austrian-chancellor-threatens-lockdown-for-unvaccinated/146412

A hell of a lot of countries are seeing cases rise big time toots , much to quackers dissappointment , and we need to learn to live withthis virus .

It isnt going away , you cant hide in your room and wait the storm out , so we mustnt let hysterics like quack quack pressure governments into getting stuck in a cycle of never ending lockdowns.

[Nick]

We know the PCR produced very high rate of false positives at 35 cycle threshold

Fake news I'm afraid.

https://fullfact.org/health/cycle-threshold-values/

[Scott777]

We know viruses mutate, and what have they got to gain by saying there is a new strain?

Not just new, but the media say more dangerous, while MPs chop and change, generally creating the impression it is dangerous.  That was clearly used to justify vaccines.  Matt Hancock, for example, gains because he has (or had) shares in Porton Biopharma Ltd, a vaccine company.

I agree that they have counted people who died with Covid and not just the from Covid.Don't understand this one?

For example, it was WITH positive test within a period that was then reduced to 28 days.  That reduced the cases and deaths that could be attributed to Covid.  Still, the tests are BS.  We know the PCR produced very high rate of false positives at 35 cycle threshold.  Again, that means more deaths attributed falsely to Covid, as JOG has pointed out (being hit by a bus, or whatever, and having a positive test, means a Covid death, even if they had no illness).

[Nick]

But not necessarily a new one

We know viruses mutate, and what have they got to gain by saying there is a new strain?

The numbers have been false, and that's proven by the fact that they had to change them.

I agree that they have counted people who died with Covid and not just the from Covid.

The PCR testing is now accepted to be useless ([highlight=rgb(255,100,0)]cycles above 35[/highlight])

Don't understand this one?

[Scott777]

So which bits do you think are fake and made up?

The fact there is a virus?
The vaccine is just water?
People haven't died from it?

Sure, there's a virus.  But not necessarily a new one, and certainly no more deadly than the flu (in the general case), and less deadly than the flu if you are healthy and under 60.  The numbers have been false, and that's proven by the fact that they had to change them.  The PCR testing is now accepted to be useless (cycles above 35), but they won't admit the lateral flow test is useless.

We still don't know who died FROM the virus, nor from the vaccine.  We do know people died because of lockdown and the rules, and we do know some people are dying from the vaccine.  We do know the vaccines were planned before the virus was created, and the fear was created in order to make profit from vaccines.  It's obviously a scam.  In the absence of more accurate information, the solution is to carry on as normal.  Unless you can provide evidence to contradict anything I have said.

[Nick]

Not blanket, but certainly it extends across the political spectrum, because the fear porn has been well funded and they used psychological manipulation.  I'm just saying why it's supported more by the remainers, not suggesting Brexiteers did not fall for it.  It's the opposite of common sense.  Common sense tells me it's a scam, when they planned to vaccinate the world BEFORE the pandemic, when it was deliberately engineered in a lab, when the vaccine spike protein was patented BEFORE the virus was released, when they are taking your money like taking candy from a child, and when the advice they give is nonsense, because it's gaslighting.  They have not taken measures to limit anything, quite the opposite.

So which bits do you think are fake and made up?

The fact there is a virus?
The vaccine is just water?
People haven't died from it?

[Scott777]

50,000+ cases yesterday - we currently have one of the highest case rates in the world and some days the highest number of actual daily cases.

Oh my goodness, what are we going to do with all the sneezing and runny noses!  PANIC!  I'm building a bunker, and it's covered in tin foil.  I just can't understand why the vaccine didn't work.  😁

Yet our prime minister, who had a very close call with covid himself last year, is yet again slow to act on precautions.

Yes, I was there, and Covid was so close when it called him, they were practically kissing.

The vaccination programme, as I keep saying, has been the one success story and has saved a lot of lives and prevented a lot more people becoming seriously ill. But we've been told right from the start that vaccination can't be 100% successful, that's true of most treatments.

I know what you mean.  The vaccine is really successful, but we still need to panic, before it wasn't successful.

The government needs to take a lead and stop dragging its feet in taking the action advised by the medical and epidemiological experts.

What, you mean Professor Sunetra Gupta was right, and we need to immediately follow the Great Barrington Declaration?  SHOCKER!

Nobody has all the answers but the most ignorant are the anti-vaxxers who are either gullible or deliberately malicious.

I think they are deliberately malicious.  Some of them want to maliciously rely on natural immunity, and maliciously not give their taxes to big pharma, and to be able to maliciously go to work or walk the dog during another lockdown.  I'm behind you all the way.  QUACK.

[T00ts]

We're now back in 'here we go again' territory.

50,000+ cases yesterday - we currently have one of the highest case rates in the world and some days the highest number of daily cases.

Yet our prime minister, who had a very close call with covid himself last year, is yet again slow to act on precautions.

Every wave we've had - this is now the fourth - the government has been too slow to act when numbers are rising and too quick to ease restrictions when they're falling.

The vaccination programme, as I keep saying, has been the one success story and has saved a lot of lives and prevented a lot more people becoming seriously ill. But we've been told riight from the start that vaccination can't be 100% successful.

The government need to take a lead and drag its feet in taking the action advised by the medical and epidemiological experts. Nobody has all the answers but the most ignorant are the anti-vaxxers who are either gullible or deliberately malicious. I mean - now they even think the Pope controls all the businesses in the world. Honsetly, I ask you!!

You are right that we are finding lots of cases but then we do test an awful lot compared to some. I saw stats yesterday that revealed that many of those who were going to die of Covid now have. The very elderly, those with underlying conditions etc and that although infections have risen deaths haven't in relation to them. I don't believe everything I hear or read and today while having my booster was warned to still go carefully. Although the 'vaccine' is not fool proof it does seem to be slowly reducing the severity. Today's booster appears to be over 95% effective and for those of us prepared to take the risk of having it perhaps those refusing should thank us for putting our lives at risk to save others.

[HDQQ]

We're now back in 'here we go again' territory.

50,000+ cases yesterday - we currently have one of the highest case rates in the world and some days the highest number of actual daily cases.

Yet our prime minister, who had a very close call with covid himself last year, is yet again slow to act on precautions.

Every wave we've had - this is now the fourth - the government has been too slow to act when numbers are rising and too quick to ease restrictions when they're falling.

The vaccination programme, as I keep saying, has been the one success story and has saved a lot of lives and prevented a lot more people becoming seriously ill. But we've been told right from the start that vaccination can't be 100% successful, that's true of most treatments.

The government needs to take a lead and stop dragging its feet in taking the action advised by the medical and epidemiological experts. Nobody has all the answers but the most ignorant are the anti-vaxxers who are either gullible or deliberately malicious. I mean - now they even think the Pope controls all the businesses in the world. Honestly, I ask you!!

It's just not on to soft-soap the public with Torywash about success and victory when the opposite is happening.