Labour Party elder statesman Baron (Wreck it and Run) Reid Warts & all

[Good old]

It does , and who said otherwise? Are you arguing with yourself again?
I think we understand the dominant economic system especially across the western world is capitalism. Again you appear to be arguing with yourself once more.Only three countires in the western world use the two cheeks of the same arse unrepresentative system you favour.
I have given you an answer numerous times. I want scotland run by scots for scots , not run by the foreign elite of another country. What part of that do you not understand?Im extremely realistic. Its you who appears delusional. One of the parties i vote for have been in charge now for approaching 15 years , while your pathetic party has been out of power 15 years in scotland , and 12 years at uk level.  People dont appear to like what you are selling same old.
Well theres an old saying in scotland .



When we had a king, and a chancellor, and parliament-men o' our ain, we could aye peeble them wi' stanes when they werena gude bairns - But naebody's nails can reach the length o' Lunnon.

Scotlands economy was growing massivley each year for the decade running up to the union of 1707 , and after the union , our economy went into freefall for the next century according to historian michael lynch.

Poverty , and mans progression has nothing whatsoever to do with whoever has the keys to ten downing street. The uk has shrunk in terms of wealth power and global influence over the last century , and lost much of an empire in the process.
There isnt a facking socialist within a million miles of new labour , what are you talking about you absolute lunatic?

Sir keir knight of the realm starmer , the champagne socialist. Christ , the most pro socialist guy o nthis forum , srb steve , has just quit starmers new labour party for exactly that reason , the lack of socialism.

My fackin sides are killing me reading your posts same old.

So now you think all it needs is to remove first by the post?  No you dont , you do nothing other than reiterate the same bollocks. You use the same ,I never said that,  ,I never voted this way
I am not interested in English politics . I have given you the answer you say. NO you haven't. You want Scotland run by Scots. So what the hell does that do for England ,? In the terms of an improvement on Tory rule in the south?
The bollocks you retreat to . We ain't what we used to be! , We used to think we ruled the World. We lost the Empire. Scotland in 1707, and you think I ain't laughing.
You have constantly , outside your love of the idea of independence shown only one over riding passion a hatred of Labour. Well let me tell you Labour had little or nothing to do with any of that.
Socialism is as broad as Toryism if anything that is it's weakness in political terms, when ever people start this Im a better version socialist than you , it is manner from heaven for the Tory, and you only play on it , with sr, because you see it the Tory way mate, but of course I don't say you are one. You would only make that ,I am so hurt denial again.
You say you support change, no you don't , I said way back in this I would support dumping first by the post, so don't try saying that's the change you envisage, it would be change but not so much as they would all stop relying  on the same systems of blocking and misdirecting , that takes place now, if it should happen  they will take even longer to make their minds up about any number of issues.  If I went to such lengths as you do with lengthy diatribe after lengthy diatribe and still not do much beyond work off your own fantasies , over the deficiencies in Labour. I don't  think I would be laughing , but it takes all sorts.

[Sheepy]

What are you on about now? What I say is , capitalism rules the roost . All these issues you talk of are without complete change governed by Capitalism. Brexit, a capitalist fight. Scot Indy a capitalist fight , in both cases you end up with capitalism. You are changing within capitalism, that's all .
It's you and others that are so concerned about ,the two cheeks of the same arse, as you like to see it.
It's much bigger than that . Every option is a variation of how to make use of the same arse.
Waffle,gibbering, none of these jibs  deflects from the fact that you have no real answer to what you say is your problem . I don't tell you not to try and alter the world you live in, I do tell you to get realistic. I said before if you throw stones from a distance ,even big stones,  you will change nothing , as much as getting in No 10 once in a while can effect the slow progress that has taken us from the poverty of 1920 to the relative affluence of 2020.
OK now you don't want to change capitalism, well I do, I want to take our capitalism and put a more socialist slant on it, and I can not do that without getting through the first door. And I will not do that disagreeing on  every fractional issue with all those that are not Tory. As you would encourage.

LOL Browm envelopes beat being a pleb, I don't call the banking crisis doing much for socialism or of late big pharma ruling the roost. Probably just me though. Although another messiah is on the way I hear who has never been wrong about anything. Armed with the truth of his own making. It is all coming a mass awakening no less. Which has no political answers but all about being in tune. 

[Thomas]

What are you on about now? What I say is , capitalism rules the roost .

It does , and who said otherwise? Are you arguing with yourself again?

All these issues you talk of are without complete change governed by Capitalism. Brexit, a capitalist fight. Scot Indy a capitalist fight , in both cases you end up with capitalism. You are changing within capitalism, that's all

I think we understand the dominant economic system especially across the western world is capitalism. Again you appear to be arguing with yourself once more.

It's you and others that are so concerned about ,the two cheeks of the same arse, as you like to see it.

Only three countires in the western world use the two cheeks of the same arse unrepresentative system you favour.

Waffle,gibbering, none of these jibs  deflects from the fact that you have no real answer to what you say is your problem

I have given you an answer numerous times. I want scotland run by scots for scots , not run by the foreign elite of another country. What part of that do you not understand?

I don't tell you not to try and alter the world you live in, I do tell you to get realistic.

Im extremely realistic. Its you who appears delusional. One of the parties i vote for have been in charge now for approaching 15 years , while your pathetic party has been out of power 15 years in scotland , and 12 years at uk level.  People dont appear to like what you are selling same old.

I said before if you throw stones from a distance ,even big stones,  you will change nothing ,

Well theres an old saying in scotland .



When we had a king, and a chancellor, and parliament-men o' our ain, we could aye peeble them wi' stanes when they werena gude bairns - But naebody's nails can reach the length o' Lunnon.

as much as getting in No 10 once in a while can effect the slow progress that has taken us from the poverty of 1920 to the relative affluence of 2020.

Scotlands economy was growing massivley each year for the decade running up to the union of 1707 , and after the union , our economy went into freefall for the next century according to historian michael lynch.

Poverty , and mans progression has nothing whatsoever to do with whoever has the keys to ten downing street. The uk has shrunk in terms of wealth power and global influence over the last century , and lost much of an empire in the process.

OK now you don't want to change capitalism, well I do, I want to take our capitalism and put a more socialist slant on it

There isnt a facking socialist within a million miles of new labour , what are you talking about you absolute lunatic?

Sir keir knight of the realm starmer , the champagne socialist. Christ , the most pro socialist guy o nthis forum , srb steve , has just quit starmers new labour party for exactly that reason , the lack of socialism.

My fackin sides are killing me reading your posts same old.

[Good old]

Change what with? Capitalism? Using the quote tags , plese quote where i have said im proposing changing capitalism?

We are talking about current politcs , things like brexit and scot indy , and all the pros and cons and concerns people have with modern politics , and you waffle on about being unable the break the wheel.

What are you on about now? What I say is , capitalism rules the roost . All these issues you talk of are without complete change governed by Capitalism. Brexit, a capitalist fight. Scot Indy a capitalist fight , in both cases you end up with capitalism. You are changing within capitalism, that's all . 
It's you and others that are so concerned about ,the two cheeks of the same arse, as you like to see it.
It's much bigger than that . Every option is a variation of how to make use of the same arse. 
Waffle,gibbering, none of these jibs  deflects from the fact that you have no real answer to what you say is your problem . I don't tell you not to try and alter the world you live in, I do tell you to get realistic. I said before if you throw stones from a distance ,even big stones,  you will change nothing , as much as getting in No 10 once in a while can effect the slow progress that has taken us from the poverty of 1920 to the relative affluence of 2020.
OK now you don't want to change capitalism, well I do, I want to take our capitalism and put a more socialist slant on it, and I can not do that without getting through the first door. And I will not do that disagreeing on  every fractional issue with all those that are not Tory. As you would encourage.

[Thomas]

Sorry Sheep, politics for wishful thinkers mate.

says the man who supports a re hash of the failed blairite doctrine.

[Thomas]

I just wish you would stop frigging jibbering.
If you can answer what you plan to change it with then yes, you get on with it.

Change what with? Capitalism? Using the quote tags , plese quote where i have said im proposing changing capitalism?

We are talking about current politcs , things like brexit and scot indy , and all the pros and cons and concerns people have with modern politics , and you waffle on about being unable the break the wheel.

[Sheepy]

Sorry Sheep, politics for wishful thinkers mate.

Don't feel sorry for me, I have already proved it is achievable, I have done my bit. 

[Good old]

Exactly but then you have to have the willing to carry it through and secondly, we have been explaining for a couple of decades at least your personal views don't always come out on top, but win or lose you get behind the democratic decision, or it all always be a disaster in waiting.
Politics for grownups good old, it will happen one day.Or keep giving it up for the messiahs.

Sorry Sheep, politics for wishful thinkers mate.

[Good old]

What are you gibbering about now? Capitalism? Thats a bit deep for in here on a sunday afternoon.

So help me translate , what you are saying is as capitalism is the dominant economic system of the planet , thats what gives england its one party state , with two cheeks of the same arse party , and we jocks taffs and paddies , along with our anglo saxon cousin , just have to shut up and accept our fate.

Resistance is futile.



Come oan same old. You can do much better than that cac.

I just wish you would stop frigging jibbering.
If you can answer what you plan to change it with then yes, you get on with it.
As you can't or will not. It looks like you exist on nothing more than wishful thinking .
Take your  arrogance with you. What plan have you got for Bonny Scotland, that doesn't involve Capitalism? Please tell?

[Sheepy]

It's not a case of more important than the majority. It's merely a case of not loosing sight of those that were not in the majority . That's why our system allows opposition. Safety valve. And no one's going to be on the majority side of every referendum, so what happens when a referendum decision is proved to be a frigging disaster. Oh that's all right it was democratic.?

Exactly but then you have to have the willing to carry it through and secondly, we have been explaining for a couple of decades at least your personal views don't always come out on top, but win or lose you get behind the democratic decision, or it all always be a disaster in waiting.
Politics for grownups good old, it will happen one day.Or keep giving it up for the messiahs. 

[Good old]

Is it? and what makes you more important than what a majority have voted for? After all that is what the Westminster party are always telling us what counts, first past the post and even if they didn't proportional representation is no such thing anyway as you have just pointed out.

It's not a case of more important than the majority. It's merely a case of not loosing sight of those that were not in the majority . That's why our system allows opposition. Safety valve. And no one's going to be on the majority side of every referendum, so what happens when a referendum decision is proved to be a frigging disaster. Oh that's all right it was democratic.?

[Thomas]

Of course it is a case of the same old, it's capitalism. It is two sides of same cheek. It is no feeling different in Scotland, other than the issue of independence . And you or anyone else voting for any entity that has one of your pet ideas in its manifesto. Will never dislodge the governing party , whether that be Scotland , or England , it merely spreads any opposition all over the place. And if it's bad anything you do that with nobs on . And the fact you think you don't says it all.

What are you gibbering about now? Capitalism? Thats a bit deep for in here on a sunday afternoon.

So help me translate , what you are saying is as capitalism is the dominant economic system of the planet , thats what gives england its one party state , with two cheeks of the same arse party , and we jocks taffs and paddies , along with our anglo saxon cousin , just have to shut up and accept our fate.

Resistance is futile.



Come oan same old. You can do much better than that cac.

[Sheepy]

And my point is that , whatever you ask for ,however you ask, will always end up in the hands of a Boris. Finding a Boris, that always does what a democratic majority wants, is not likely , Boris,s always have ready made agenda.
So even the use of the occasional referendum, would never alter the nature of any of us  getting anymore of what we really want, if only because the result of any referendum does not represent what we all wanted anyway,  only a majority. Just as now.

Is it? and what makes you more important than what a majority have voted for? After all that is what the Westminster party are always telling us what counts, first past the post and even if they didn't proportional representation is no such thing anyway as you have just pointed out.

[Good old]

Don't put words in my mouth, I have never said every decision should be ruled by referendum, only major ones that affect everyone whichever politics you might think you are fronting, at local level it is completely different of course. I have never said Populism will cure all political ills either, just give more people control over the important parts of their lives that will affect them and any future generation that they may spawn. If it had been followed, I truly believe it would have been a win,win for the Uk electorate and democracy. Instead, we have ended up with a complete cluster feck. With the likes of the establishment tutting and saying well it would have never worked anyway. While leaving the rest of us fighting over even the most basic of democratic freedoms. So no like I say let the loonies have their 5 minutes. Of course, I know we have the latest on the list of messiahs running amok. It won't last it never does. That is what thirst for power can do.

And my point is that , whatever you ask for ,however you ask, will always end up in the hands of a Boris. Finding a Boris, that always does what a democratic majority wants, is not likely , Boris,s always have ready made agenda.
So even the use of the occasional referendum, would never alter the nature of any of us  getting anymore of what we really want, if only because the result of any referendum does not represent what we all wanted anyway,  only a majority. Just as now.

[Sheepy]

Sorry sheep, but if referendum was thought to be  the answer,  then it has to be a ref on every decision. How do you get past the problem of having another ref, on how to implement each ref decision.? Who would organise each ref ? Oh , what about a group of people? A governing group.? Or maybe one person, the almighty.? Organise, isn't that what government is?
And most of all there will never come a day when everyone wants the same things, and on  that note the human condition demands conflict. And that's about all you will get, unless you are governed out of it.

Don't put words in my mouth, I have never said every decision should be ruled by referendum, only major ones that affect everyone whichever politics you might think you are fronting, at local level it is completely different of course. I have never said Populism will cure all political ills either, just give more people control over the important parts of their lives that will affect them and any future generation that they may spawn. If it had been followed, I truly believe it would have been a win,win for the Uk electorate and democracy. Instead, we have ended up with a complete cluster feck. With the likes of the establishment tutting and saying well it would have never worked anyway. While leaving the rest of us fighting over even the most basic of democratic freedoms. So no like I say let the loonies have their 5 minutes. Of course, I know we have the latest on the list of messiahs running amok. It won't last it never does. That is what thirst for power can do.