So all members are equal are they?

[Nick]

We are not seeing these products on our shelves because the EU doesn't allow us to buy them. Did you seriously just ask that question?



As for Brasil, tell me what you know about it and then I will educate you on it.



As for the UK, in this case I will use England. It is almost everywhere regarded as the most influential country in history. Is that the same as important?



I will ignore your economic masterclass if you don't mind, only to say, you don't think Eire will suffer more than any other country?

What are you talking about. The EU is the largest trade partner for Brazil, they exported 32b worth of goods to the EU. If you want to buy their oranges or other products fire away. The EU is also in talks for a FTA, soon enough there will be tariff free, won't that be great.



There's no debating the infulence England inflicted on countries around the globe, but that's history. Today what has it to offer, It's no longer a major player. you can't rely on the importance of the UK 200 yrs ago when trying to get a trade deal.



No don't ignore the question I'll simplify the maths for you as your struggling to keep up.

IRL has 12% of it's exports at risk but has over 60 FTA's = Suffering

UK has over 75% of it's exports at risk and has no FTA's =

Are you capable of following the thread of a conversation?



Firstly you describe trade with Brasil as slave labour, now you're cooing at the enormity of the EU's deal with them.



As for buying Oranges from Brasil, at the moment we can't due to the protectionist racket you call the EU. Can't believe you don't understand how they operate. Do you think Spain wants Oranges coming into the block at a 1/10th of the price?



As for 75% risk to UK, just another Gerry special based on absolutely no facts. The UK exports 46% to the EU, that's not going to stop. The other 54% certainly isn't going stop.



You keep on with your mantra that the UK will suffer and S.I is bomb proof.

[Streetwalker]

That's right , we want to do our own thing . The different way of course means we cant do our own thing and we have to throw £50 million a week at it so other countries can do their thing . .. When a deal goes sour , gets too complicated and there is too much compromise we say bugger off and go or stay WTO.  Its not a problem .

You don't get it, you also get far more out of the EU. If there's a hard brexit the UK leaves all the free trade deals and it then looses all it gets from being a member, that's far more that what it puts into the EU.

With time that might change, it depends how long it takes the UK to get new trade deals and will they be as good as what the UK currently has, that's the unknown bit. 50yrs is the best guess, until then whatever the UK "paid" into the EU is far less than the cost of Brexit.



There are over 50 regulatory bodies the UK needs to replicate post a hard brexit. How much to you think that's going to cost. The additional customs, civil servants etc... Has anyone worked out these costs of Brexit

You paint a very complicated future Gerry with a raft of problems to overcome . The reality though is that the EU has very few free trade deals .All have strings attached  that put them in the trade agreement folder rather than the  free trade deal one . We can do better and be more accommodating to our future partners because we don't have to consider the wants and needs of 27 other nations .



What it costs or indeed what gains we may make is irrelevant . To be governed by those we elected without hindrance by those we don't trumps any trade considerations . They will be what they will be .

[GerryT]

Well why aren't you seeing those products on the UK shelves then. If their much cheaper then surely some one would import them an sell them ?



Have you looked at the Brazil, they sure know how to look after their employees. Is that what you want, modern day slavery. You might want a race to the bottom, many others don't.



Listen to yourself, you make it sound like the UK is very important. Again don't let facts get in the way. Maybe you can answer this. 12% of all Irish exports go to the UK. 45% of all UK exports go to the EU and another 30% to countries the EU has trade deals with. On top of that the UK will have zero FTA's while Ireland will have over 60. You think Ireland will suffer..so whats going to happen to the UK

We are not seeing these products on our shelves because the EU doesn't allow us to buy them. Did you seriously just ask that question?



As for Brasil, tell me what you know about it and then I will educate you on it.



As for the UK, in this case I will use England. It is almost everywhere regarded as the most influential country in history. Is that the same as important?



I will ignore your economic masterclass if you don't mind, only to say, you don't think Eire will suffer more than any other country?

What are you talking about. The EU is the largest trade partner for Brazil, they exported 32b worth of goods to the EU. If you want to buy their oranges or other products fire away. The EU is also in talks for a FTA, soon enough there will be tariff free, won't that be great.



There's no debating the infulence England inflicted on countries around the globe, but that's history. Today what has it to offer, It's no longer a major player. you can't rely on the importance of the UK 200 yrs ago when trying to get a trade deal.



No don't ignore the question I'll simplify the maths for you as your struggling to keep up.

IRL has 12% of it's exports at risk but has over 60 FTA's = Suffering

UK has over 75% of it's exports at risk and has no FTA's =

[Nick]

I was going to say you couldn't make it up but clearly you have. Post a link to any of the above that gives evidence!



Just to take one of your made up facts, there is nothing the EU sells that the UK can't buy somewhere else in the world at a much cheaper price. I've asked a million times for someone to show me a product that's exclusive to the EU excluding brand names.



I did a huge spreadsheet in the Other Place with not a single item cheaper in the EU. Oranges from Brasil are 8 € cents a kilo compared to 1€ in the EU, you can put 600% tariff on them and they're still half the price as the EU.



Observe Varadkar in the coming weeks, you'll see who is going to suffer, and you know what, I'm kind of glad. You've waved this GFA and backstop around for years when you could have done a deal. You're now going to reap what you have sowed...

Well why aren't you seeing those products on the UK shelves then. If their much cheaper then surely some one would import them an sell them ?



Have you looked at the Brazil, they sure know how to look after their employees. Is that what you want, modern day slavery. You might want a race to the bottom, many others don't.



Listen to yourself, you make it sound like the UK is very important. Again don't let facts get in the way. Maybe you can answer this. 12% of all Irish exports go to the UK. 45% of all UK exports go to the EU and another 30% to countries the EU has trade deals with. On top of that the UK will have zero FTA's while Ireland will have over 60. You think Ireland will suffer..so whats going to happen to the UK

We are not seeing these products on our shelves because the EU doesn't allow us to buy them. Did you seriously just ask that question?



As for Brasil, tell me what you know about it and then I will educate you on it.



As for the UK, in this case I will use England. It is almost everywhere regarded as the most influential country in history. Is that the same as important?



I will ignore your economic masterclass if you don't mind, only to say, you don't think Eire will suffer more than any other country?

[GerryT]

With one big difference, the UK will have to drop it's prices to sell into the EU, so when the tariff is applied the sales price to EU consumers doesn't go up, if the price increases then people will just pick a different product on the shelf. There's choice as most products on EU shelves have no tariffs applied.

The UK on the other hand will have very few products on the shelf that doesn't have a tariff applied so there's no need for exporters to the UK to drop their price as all exporters from around the world will have the same tariff applied. This has a double whammy as prices will increase and the consumer will pay.

It's only bad news for the UK in a hard brexit situation.

I was going to say you couldn't make it up but clearly you have. Post a link to any of the above that gives evidence!



Just to take one of your made up facts, there is nothing the EU sells that the UK can't buy somewhere else in the world at a much cheaper price. I've asked a million times for someone to show me a product that's exclusive to the EU excluding brand names.



I did a huge spreadsheet in the Other Place with not a single item cheaper in the EU. Oranges from Brasil are 8 € cents a kilo compared to 1€ in the EU, you can put 600% tariff on them and they're still half the price as the EU.



Observe Varadkar in the coming weeks, you'll see who is going to suffer, and you know what, I'm kind of glad. You've waved this GFA and backstop around for years when you could have done a deal. You're now going to reap what you have sowed...

Well why aren't you seeing those products on the UK shelves then. If their much cheaper then surely some one would import them an sell them ?



Have you looked at the Brazil, they sure know how to look after their employees. Is that what you want, modern day slavery. You might want a race to the bottom, many others don't.



Listen to yourself, you make it sound like the UK is very important. Again don't let facts get in the way. Maybe you can answer this. 12% of all Irish exports go to the UK. 45% of all UK exports go to the EU and another 30% to countries the EU has trade deals with. On top of that the UK will have zero FTA's while Ireland will have over 60. You think Ireland will suffer..so whats going to happen to the UK

[Stevlin]

How do you know, lets just say your out next week, you want to do a trade deal with say the USA, they require product going there must follow USA manufacturing regulations, is that not ceding some legislative power to the USA. You'll be paying hefty tariff's to the EU, your exports to the EU are about 270b even with a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the UK of 13.5b a yr, thats 6b a year more than the EU  costs. Is that the win win your talking about.

Oh c'mon Gerry - be sensible . how the hell is establishing regulations affecting the exchange of goods pertinent to a specific country be impinging on 'sovereignty'...or even primacy of legislation.  Such a trading 'regulation' required by another country is more applicable to standards , and is certainly not a legislative imposition.

Expecting components to be manufactured in  metric  measurements instead of 'inches' is pretty common in overseas trade.....but hardly a requirement to the 'country' to be so instructed!!

[Nick]

And the EU exports 340 billion to the UK, at a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the EU of 17b a year. We're 3.5 billion up.



When will you learn to weigh up your argument before blundering in?

With one big difference, the UK will have to drop it's prices to sell into the EU, so when the tariff is applied the sales price to EU consumers doesn't go up, if the price increases then people will just pick a different product on the shelf. There's choice as most products on EU shelves have no tariffs applied.

The UK on the other hand will have very few products on the shelf that doesn't have a tariff applied so there's no need for exporters to the UK to drop their price as all exporters from around the world will have the same tariff applied. This has a double whammy as prices will increase and the consumer will pay.

It's only bad news for the UK in a hard brexit situation.

I was going to say you couldn't make it up but clearly you have. Post a link to any of the above that gives evidence!



Just to take one of your made up facts, there is nothing the EU sells that the UK can't buy somewhere else in the world at a much cheaper price. I've asked a million times for someone to show me a product that's exclusive to the EU excluding brand names.



I did a huge spreadsheet in the Other Place with not a single item cheaper in the EU. Oranges from Brasil are 8 € cents a kilo compared to 1€ in the EU, you can put 600% tariff on them and they're still half the price as the EU.



Observe Varadkar in the coming weeks, you'll see who is going to suffer, and you know what, I'm kind of glad. You've waved this GFA and backstop around for years when you could have done a deal. You're now going to reap what you have sowed...

[GerryT]

How do you know, lets just say your out next week, you want to do a trade deal with say the USA, they require product going there must follow USA manufacturing regulations, is that not ceding some legislative power to the USA. You'll be paying hefty tariff's to the EU, your exports to the EU are about 270b even with a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the UK of 13.5b a yr, thats 6b a year more than the EU  costs. Is that the win win your talking about.

And the EU exports 340 billion to the UK, at a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the EU of 17b a year. We're 3.5 billion up.



When will you learn to weigh up your argument before blundering in?

With one big difference, the UK will have to drop it's prices to sell into the EU, so when the tariff is applied the sales price to EU consumers doesn't go up, if the price increases then people will just pick a different product on the shelf. There's choice as most products on EU shelves have no tariffs applied.

The UK on the other hand will have very few products on the shelf that doesn't have a tariff applied so there's no need for exporters to the UK to drop their price as all exporters from around the world will have the same tariff applied. This has a double whammy as prices will increase and the consumer will pay.

It's only bad news for the UK in a hard brexit situation.

[Nick]

Still don't get it do you Gerry? The point is, any compromising will be within the establishment of a mutually agreeable trade deal, and pertinent to TRADE - not POLITICS ..... AND we won't have to ridiculously subsidise the other member(s) in the Agreement, or cede legislative sovereignty, or involve an undemocratic Executive with a supernumerary Parliament fronting a nascent USSE... so, that sounds like a win,win,win scenario for the UK.

Bring it on!!

How do you know, lets just say your out next week, you want to do a trade deal with say the USA, they require product going there must follow USA manufacturing regulations, is that not ceding some legislative power to the USA. You'll be paying hefty tariff's to the EU, your exports to the EU are about 270b even with a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the UK of 13.5b a yr, thats 6b a year more than the EU  costs. Is that the win win your talking about.

And the EU exports 340 billion to the UK, at a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the EU of 17b a year. We're 3.5 billion up.



When will you learn to weigh up your argument before blundering in?

[GerryT]

I was implying nothing, I was making a point, why don't you talk about the point being made. How the UK gains back control to then give it away with new deals.

Why don't you make your point without making reference to unicorns then?

Well you obviously want to talk about the unicorns as you've nothing to say about the substantive points.

[GerryT]

The point I made was, being in the EU you have to compromise. leaving with no deal and you make all your own decisions, then start striking trade deals and your back compromising. How in any way did my post demean anyone's intelligence.

Still don't get it do you Gerry? The point is, any compromising will be within the establishment of a mutually agreeable trade deal, and pertinent to TRADE - not POLITICS ..... AND we won't have to ridiculously subsidise the other member(s) in the Agreement, or cede legislative sovereignty, or involve an undemocratic Executive with a supernumerary Parliament fronting a nascent USSE... so, that sounds like a win,win,win scenario for the UK.

Bring it on!!

How do you know, lets just say your out next week, you want to do a trade deal with say the USA, they require product going there must follow USA manufacturing regulations, is that not ceding some legislative power to the USA. You'll be paying hefty tariff's to the EU, your exports to the EU are about 270b even with a modest average 5% tariff that's a cost to the UK of 13.5b a yr, thats 6b a year more than the EU  costs. Is that the win win your talking about.

[cromwell]

Ah so you believe in unicorns and weren't implying leavers did?

I was implying nothing, I was making a point, why don't you talk about the point being made. How the UK gains back control to then give it away with new deals.

Why don't you make your point without making reference to unicorns then?

[GerryT]

The point I made was, being in the EU you have to compromise. leaving with no deal and you make all your own decisions, then start striking trade deals and your back compromising. How in any way did my post demean anyone's intelligence.

Ah so you believe in unicorns and weren't implying leavers did?

I was implying nothing, I was making a point, why don't you talk about the point being made. How the UK gains back control to then give it away with new deals.

[GerryT]

And that is a good reason to leave the EU. If a country wants to do it's own thing. The EU is like a farmers COOP, using the strength of the group to get better deals. No one country gets it's own way so each country compromises. Just a different way of doing things.



It will get a little more complicated, every trade deal you strike will come with conditions, a time will come when conditions of new deals may conflict with existing deals, everything won't go your way. Brexit isn't the land of unicorns, compromise will be required whether your inside or outside the EU.

That's right , we want to do our own thing . The different way of course means we cant do our own thing and we have to throw £50 million a week at it so other countries can do their thing . .. When a deal goes sour , gets too complicated and there is too much compromise we say bugger off and go or stay WTO.  Its not a problem .

You don't get it, you also get far more out of the EU. If there's a hard brexit the UK leaves all the free trade deals and it then looses all it gets from being a member, that's far more that what it puts into the EU.

With time that might change, it depends how long it takes the UK to get new trade deals and will they be as good as what the UK currently has, that's the unknown bit. 50yrs is the best guess, until then whatever the UK "paid" into the EU is far less than the cost of Brexit.



There are over 50 regulatory bodies the UK needs to replicate post a hard brexit. How much to you think that's going to cost. The additional customs, civil servants etc... Has anyone worked out these costs of Brexit

[Stevlin]

I can explain it to you, and lay out all the facts for you, but I cannot understand it for you.

EU members collectively export $6.3 trillion worth of goods and services to the rest of the world — of which the UK is seeking to become a part...

Well maybe you could explain how the fact that 'rest of the EU', including Germany with its very large export book actually helps the UK???

Ceasing the ridiculous annual membership fee, and trading on mutually beneficial terms, ( as sensible countries do), makes far more sense. Trading IS, and should be apolitical.....and acting as a formal federation of states when not is plainly ridiculous.